A few misconceptions about Self Defense? Opinions?

Question

Some close minded ideas about Martial Arts.(my opinion)

1. Karate taking a backseat to other, more popular styles. Karate is proven, period, and it doesnt matter to me who would win between a karate black belt and a boxer, or this or that...The many different forms of Karate are more than effective in different life applications, whether it be sporting or real life self defense.

2. A boxer would be destroyed by any other martial artist. This one is laughable. Theres a pro boxer training at my gym, if he had to fight for protection,I would hate to try and grapple him and catch an uppercut in a clinch, or try a kick and have him duck it and catch me. The speed and footwork in boxing is uncanny in the hands(and feet) of someone skilled.

BJJ is impractical in real defense. Why?? If I had to protect my family I wouldnt try to pull guard or submit, especially with multiple people. Thats why we work entrances all the time! Heard of Fabers bali story?!Plant em on the pavement and get out!

Answer 1

One of the misconceptions of karate that pisses me off the most is those ignorant people(trying to be nice) that say "karate is a striking art".

I come here showing video clips of practitioners executing grappling technique direct from the kata, pressure point knockouts, throws, etc and it's like they are effing blind.

How ignorant are you(not you) that you can see these techniques on video and still say that it is a "striking art"?

Here is one video that is not showing what you would do to one person using all the movements of one kata, but drills they use to instill the usage of the movement of the kata to grapple...

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=e...

LOOK GUYS!!! HERE IS YOUR "STRIKING ART!!!"

I myself have other applications for Naihanchin but I will definitely use these drills too! The only thing he is leaving out is the application of the toe kicks, done as the foot sweeps upward... YES "STRIKING ART" GUYS, THE HIDDEN APPLICATION FOR THAT SWEEP IS A TOE KICK TO THE INSIDE OF THE THIGH!!!

I have a friend who is a boxer and a black belt in karate. If you ask him if a boxer can beat a karateka, he'll say "yeah"! And if a karateka can beat a boxer, he'll say "sure!".

He's a dangerous guy. He fought "underground" for money and won! He made a decent living for a few years doing it!

I learned about boxing while working out with this guy. He told me once that I was the only person that could use karate techniques to counter his boxing.

As I always say, it is determined by the way you were trained. When you're from the 'hood, you sometimes have to be as dirty as the hood to make it home safe.

I was fortunate to have Teachers that had a real understanding of their art(s) and had no problem imparting that knowledge with me.

This was a great question(?)!

Answer 2

Very good question.

I think much of it has to do with uneducated people and personel Bias to be honest. I know for a long time I was slamming BJJ just for the fact of how concieted the Gracies and many of their students seemed to be. I eventually realized though that it was them I had a problem with, and not so much the style.

I also think that many of the "traditional" people use the thing that BJJ is not effective for multiple attackers or against weapons are just trying to use it to counteract the people that mindlessly say that BJJ is the greatest, and in the process slam any art except it, although many of them do acknowledge Muay Thai as being good.

Kind of a coincidence that these are two of the main styles in the UFC...Not. I think the majority of trouble started between "traditional" and MMA's people on here is started by the fans of the UFC who are ignorent of any style that is not well reperesented in it, wanna be's, posers, as well as many people on the "traditional" side who are either very inexperienced or are responding because of all the trashing of their style by said fans.

I think ignorence and ego are the two main culprits, on both sides. I have truly come to respect some people on here that do MMA, BJJ, Muay Thai, because of your attitudes and the way you answer. I defiently have respect for anybody who trains one of these, and I mean actually trains, not just pretends, because they are very good and hard styles.

Get rid of the poser's and wanna be's, and fan boys and I think you would have a lot less of it.

Answer 3

Actually a pro boxer fighting in the ring under boxing's rules and what Karate practitioners do are two seperate things man.  You say that a boxer would be destroyed by any other martial arts, but it's that kind of thinking that gets a man hurt.  Pride always comes before the fall dude.  Just becasue some one takes Karate doesn't mean that they are God's gift to the martial arts community yo.  I think close minded means the one who thinks there is nothing new to learn in life even when it comes to defense.  That "I'd do this and I'd do that" mentality is what limits a close minded person don't you think?

For example, if I were to actually say that my own system ( American Combat System ) were completed and there was nothing new to add to my system because it's perfect then I'd be lieing to my self because the science of combat is ever changing and a decent practitioner knows this and is always on the look out for what works as well as comparing notes with other practitioners from different art forms.

That "I can beat BJJ and I can beat a pro-boxer" thought pattern will get you no where because in all honesty you're the one that has closed your mind and that has the misconceptions dude.  It seems that within your questions is a hidden insecurity in your own abilities.  "If I had to fight a Boxer"...."If I had to fight a BJJ practitioner" blah blah blah.  

No true practitioner takes any forethought of what he'll do in a self-defense situation on the streets to protect himself.  In other words he just reacts with his training what ever training that may be.  How he has prepared himself with the technique that he has studied over the years is open minded enough isn't it?  Yet what does it profit him to train if all he can see is one countless senario after another in his head?  Why try to burn a bridge before you even get to it?

Self-defense will always be "reactive" hence the word "defense"....neither is there a need for attacking nor is there any need to take any forethought according to a practitioner's training.

The only misconceptions about self-defense out in the world come from those who over analyze technique for the love of foolish pride.

Answer 4

i like it.

Answer 5

1- why would you buy an apple computer from the 1980's when you can buy a hp made in 2008?

karate can still be effective- but it MUST be updated  to deal with what is around now, traditions only work in art and antiques- otherwise I want something that is updated and improving. some teachers do this, some don't- so once again we come back to "it depends on the training methodology".

2- that depends on HOW the martial artist trains, I have no problem with your statement if EVERY karateka trained with the same methodology as boxing and didn't hand out black belts to newborn babies (sarcasm)- because they would have more ranges to attack with.

but that is NOT the case- the average boxing gym trains with better methodology than the average karate dojo and more realistically.  so no- you can't just train by doing katas and point sparring and tip-tap c**p and expect to learn to fight or defend yourself.

3- your comments about bjj are asinine- as is your belief that bjj OR karate are effective means of "protecting your family" over the more logical option of a shotgun.  if we are talking "home defence" then bjj or karate or any other unarmed martial art is a pretty S****y way to go about it.

as far as the "multiple people" idea, what makes you think karate or ANY martial art is any different?  multiple attackers is a HUGE disadvantage against anyone without a weapon- and even then.

so BOTH bjj and karate are impractical for "defending your home" when compared to a good alarm system, a firearm or even a good old fashioned louiville slugger next to your bed.

and if you think a bjj guy will just "pull guard" you haven't seen a bjj fighter fight.  I don't do bjj, but to generalize in that manner is just plain ignorant.

Answer 6

At the highest level, you can probably safely assume most styles are more or less on par with each other excluding weaponry. What it whittles down to is how smart the practitioner is and how fierce their spirit is.

However, some styles can be adapted more easily in applications such as multiple attackers, and/or protecting people. If you have people to protect with multiple assailants I suggest something along the lines of distract and escape because all the martial training and mastery won't help when there are too many variables to manage at once. Once you're surrounded, it's pretty much over unless you quickly dispatch one guy and hope the rest get scared and none of them have a gun.

But the general rule people should follow is: don't look for trouble, and walk away if you can. Don't walk in dark alleys, and avoid shady areas at night. If you absolutely cannot, then you do what you must to live. All this talk of style vs. style doesn't matter one bit when it counts.

It's like arming two guys with a both a gun and a knife and telling one guy to use only the knife, and the other guy to use only the gun, and fight to the death. The knife guy isn't a r****d; of course he's going to draw his gun.

We don't really live in a martial world like in the ancient times, and you don't have "dojo yabure" (crashing) any more. There's also no more duels to the death between schools. There isn't even "taryujiai" anymore, private no holds barred duels between schools which often end with a life changing injury and/or death.

Occasionally in the club I practice with, sometimes we get new members with some previous experience say things like, "oh that doesn't work, because they can do this or that." So we let them do whatever, only for them to find out that martial arts isn't so simple or formulaic when we cleverly beat their "counters."

Saying a BJJ guy will do this or that in whatever situation and is impractical in real defense is a little short sighted. I don't do BJJ, but I do practice jujutsu in a traditional Japanese style , and I do know BJJs origins. What you see on TV is probably a fraction of BJJ which is a fraction of its parent style. There's standing jujutsu, with small joint manipulation, which takes down an opponent MUCH faster than large joints. There's throwing jujutsu which can make yourself an exit. I don't know if BJJ has these techniques, but they might. Somehow I don't think it's all submission techniques like how it is in sport.

Answer 7

I've said before, once upon a time, NO ONE  wanted to mess with a person who knew Karate. I've also said before, it doesn't matter what you train in. Some people are just born to fight, and are naturally good at it. Good in Karate, or boxing, or Bjj doesn't really mean your good at fighting, or self defense.  What it does mean is that you have more options that a person who is untrained. If you're walking down the street, minding your own business, and someone who knows what there doing hits you in back of the head, you're probably going down. And if he wants to hurt you, he will. He will kick you and stomp you, and you WILL revert to instinct. You're going to curl into a fetal position, try to protect your vital parts, and hope like h**l that someone pulls him off of you.  Unless you are someone who is surrounded by violence every day, and has been in that situation time and time again, that's the best thing you can do. Survive, and live to see another day. That's real life.

Answer 8

1)  I aree with you about Karate - the same could be said for nearly all traditional martial arts.  The growing popularity of MMA / UFC has taken many traditional martial arts off the map in some people's minds.  But remember, most of the top guys who train MMA have a traditional art as a foundation, whether it's Karate, Judo, or something else.  Tradition still has a place.

2)  I have to say that a good striker in most arts would win against a good boxer in most cases.  This is simply because boxing trains to defend against punches only.  A kick is devastating, unexpected and un-trained for by boxers.  A smart Muay Thai practicioner for example could use leg strikes to take away the mobility of a boxer.  Then use a plum clinch and knee strikes.  A decent Judoka could protect himself long enough to get inside a boxer's guard and easily take him down and pummel or submit him.  Boxing is an awesome tool, but like anything it has limitations; all other things being equal, other martial artists simply have more tools to use that boxers aren't trained to handle.

3) BJJ / real self defense - I agree for the most part.  Anyone who has ever tried to shoot a double leg on concrete ot or pull guard on a hard wood floor has gotten hurt .  Period.  Even the Gracies admit that multiple attackers and BJJ aren't compatible.  Not to mention that most BJJ only schools don't train you to try for an arm bar when someone is punching you in the face.  It's not the be-all-end-all that some people claim, but BJJ is pretty awesome when applied at the right time and place - but so are most other arts; boxing, traditional arts, and even greco-roman wrestling included.

*I think it was Royler Gracie that shot for a single leg on concrete and broke his own kneecap into 6 pieces- he won the fight, but put himself in the hospital for his efforts...think about it.

Answer 9

I think only a rounded game can be the best. If you cant fight on the ground then you have a big weakness. AND if you can Only fight on the ground you also have a big weakness. You need both.

As for the boxer thing. The problem is they only have 2 weapons and any other practitioner has like...9. Fists(2) Feet(2) Knees(2) Elbows(2) head (1).

So if you keep kicking him in the leg and you are just as good as him with your hands AND you have the option of falling on him at which point he is helpless....man....a boxer would get jacked up by an MMA guy, Im sorry. Kicks give you more range and even if the boxer knocks you down you can just pull him down with you or get up. He has to stand.

Boxing is inferior as a defense technique. But it can be a cool sport.

Answer 10

A street fight outcome is usually decided in a mater of seconds. From personal experience, ground and pound with more than one opponent is a loosing proposition. You need to hit accurate hard and fast. Not one wasted move when more than one opponent can be tolerated.

Sure you should know some entrances and submissions. Judo is a great art and some of it should be in your tool box. Most of the traditional arts at some level use throws, holds and releases.

I think a lot of controversy here comes from people stuck in their particular dogma of their art. Bjj is the greatest, Mau Tie is the best, Savat is the only self defense etc. All of us old timers know from life experience that the fight goes to the best trained with the most will to fight and a little luck. The particular background of the arts trained in have little to do with it in most instances.