A hypothetical question about the nature of this "god" character...?

Question

Let me first state that I'm an atheist. I view christianity in precisely the same light as I do any other mythology, and I view the bible as a work of complete fiction. Having said that....

IF there really is a god, and there really is a devil; and they both live in mystical places known as "heaven" and "h**l"..... What if christianity was deceived from the very beginning and they've been praying to the wrong guy ever since?

I offer the following as potential evidence of this deception:

-Satan is known as "the father of lies", and "the great deceiver"...would this not be the greatest deception possible?

-God sacrificed his son to torture and death; likely even authoring this whole scenario in order to pay for our "sins".

-Satan's son is supposed to unite all people under one flag for a common cause

-The greatest sin of mankind was to eat from "the tree of knowledge". Why would seeking knowledge be such a bad thing? What is he trying to hide?

-God will allegedly dish out infinite amounts of horrific torture for very finite "sins".

-Satan will accept us into his domain regardless of what we have or haven't done.

-Consider the genocidal campaigns of Joshua and others. They were ordered to kill every living person (women, children, even the unborn), in various villages that worshipped some other deity. Is murderous jealousy really an attribute of a loving deity?

-h**l is alleged to be a horrific place of eternal torture, yet our only source for this knowledge is from a book that was supposedly inspired by the very being it instructs us to worship. Consider your sources...

Again, this is a hypothetical question only. If it offends you to even consider possibilities outside your own belief system, move along to the next question. If not, I'd love to hear people's input on this.

Answer 1

I'm too tired to address all your misconceptions about the Bible, but the big one seems to be that you feel Satan is more powerful than God. Where did that come from? Because it didn't come from the Bible, that's for sure.

Answer 2

I am a catholic, but I don't have anything against atheists.  Very interesting stuff you got here.  :)  I don't think there's any way to answer your question without stating articles of faith, after all, the points you've given are not entirely "fact" based either (some of them did come from the bible right?).  The thing about religion is...you're not supposed to be able to explain everything with conventional logic...otherwise, we'd have it all figured out by now.  Some people would find this hard to stomach, but I don't think faith is all that complex...it's just simply believing....no ifs and buts or exceptions to the rule.  Some people just believe that there is a God and some people believe in a heaven and h**l.  It doesn't matter (to them ,at least) whether they can prove it or not.  But I think we can agree on one thing: that religion isn't perfect nor does it claim to be.  Religion is a human invention...a very old one.  All major religions have their roots in ancient and scientifically/logically blurry or sketchy precepts.  So if trying to make sense of the things you've stated seems a bit difficult to grasp...it's because it really is.  People faced with the same dilemma/doubts can go two ways: they get frustrated and consider becoming atheist...or they just believe in what they were taught and get on with their lives.  I believe you know where you and I stand.  ;)

Answer 3

1- that deception is way to big, it's possible but i really didn't think that's the case

2 - Sin separated man from god and killing his son brought them back together

3 - Hitler was supposed to unite everyone for a common cause, i think the outcome will be the same.

4 - I never understood the knowledge tree thing either but i suppose if they just gained all the knowledge in the wold and beyond there would be no point in anything for them, Eve bit the fruit and she was still loyal.

5 - As long as you repent your sins and accept jesus as your savior you'll be fine

6 - h**l is a jail cell of torture, if you wish to go down there, be my guest

7 - I haven't read the whole bible, only the book of Revelations and some other c**p for confirmation. (some christian i am, eh?) so I'm not familiar with that incident but i did find a few cases where someone killed a few pagans in the name of God and i really don't understand it which is why i see the bible as an interesting but corrupt book.

8 - see answer #6

I understand why you would ask such a question and i'm not going to try to convert you

It's not only the fear of h**l that keeps me to christianity, it's because 80% of the time i pray now days, what i ask for comes true, i also make deals with the good Lord sometimes, it also gives me something to hold on to and i also find it very interesting but i just find my self looking in to the dark side of everything.

And yes, christians kill people but you know what? People kill people, christian or not but they all do it for the same cause, money and power, christians only use it to get the people on their side.

Ammiright?

May the lord smile upon you

Answer 4

Actually, yes, this looks a lot like Luciferianism, but it also looks a lot like 1st century Gnosticism.

The four religions which say anything at all about Jesus as being anything other than a prophet are Christianity, Satanism, Judaism and Gnosticism. As a very gross oversimplification (especially in the case of Judaism, with apologies), and bearing in mind it's been a lot of years since I was in seminary--

Judaism says God is good, Satan is bad, and Jesus is the son of Satan, and that's bad

Christianity says God is good, Satan is bad, and Jesus is the son of God, and that's good

Satanism says God is bad, Satan is good, and Jesus is the son of God, and that's bad

Gnosticism says God is bad, Satan is good, and Jesus is the son of Satan, and that's good.

Bear in mind that each of these philosophies are equally valid (and equally invalid); it happens that historically Christianity became the dominant philosophy of the four, but it is no more or less true than the others on account of it.

Answer 5

If you believed that, then that would make you a Luciferian. There are many people who actually believe this theory.

Answer 6

I've thought about this as well. But as my mind wanders, I begin to realize that it's all BS anyway.

Answer 7

the bible is crazy. god is far to busy to be dealing with one planet. and satan is crazy. god is real though. there's too much proof.

Answer 8

And thus the problem with putting faith into writing.

In any case, people in general don't like to educate themselves. I daresay most Christians don't know what Satanism truly is about, though they still have their opinions on them.

Did you know?

A strong rule of Satanism is to do no harm to children.

Another is to never, ever rape.

Answer 9

That's why you are an Atheist.

Answer 10

All seems whack to me.

Yeah,I used the word "whack"  

Answer 11

First, let me answer this the scientific way, then I'll go into spirituality and opinion.

It is in man's nature to personify abstract concepts that aren't fully understandable. You'll notice that in ancient times polytheism was very common. My theory for why this is, is that man's understanding of the world was very limited, therefore most things were personified to make them less intimidating. Their answer; if we can make it happy, it'll be on our side. This is probably the origin of Religion. Personification was their security blanket.

As far as my opinion goes, I was brought up on the Christian religion for 16 years and soon found it to be... how shall I put this... "not for me".

My reasons for renouncing my faith are similar to what you have stated. The main reason is hypocrisy, which is greatly frowned upon in the Christian religion, and yet grossly over-practiced therein. I have always believed that denouncers of hypocrisy are the biggest hypocrits of all, but since "God" frowns upon hypocrisy, shouldn't He make some effort to not be a hypocrit Himself?

Secondly, the bible, although inspired by "God", was written by MAN. And man cannot be trusted as far as he can be thrown. Humans are flawed, and therefore everything they produce is flawed in some way. Who knows, the way people were back then, even if god appeared before this person and told them word for word what to write down, there would still definitely be modifications by the man who wrote it to reflect the norms/mores/values of his culture and those of himself.

Thirdly, everything about the religion is just arrogant. To believe that man was created in the image of a great, powerful, all-knowing being is just completely arrogant in every way. Also, this "God", who created the UNIVERSE seems to focus only on EARTH. Yes, out of all the planets in the entire universe, and all the different species therein, "God" only seems to care about Earth, and man. Is it a coincidence that the species that wrote the bible happens to be the most important in the eyes of "God"? I think not.

To answer your question, if "God" were a real entity, He would be hypocritical, power-hungry, and very favoritist.

NOTE: If anyone was offended by this answer in any way, I'm sorry you can't handle a little truth. I understand that this answer is a lot on the biased side, which is definitely not who I am, but believe me. I have weighed all options thoroughly and now that I think about what I used to believe to be true, it all just seems so ridiculous.

Answer 12

I agree with what you started out saying but I don't really understand the subsequent stuff.

Answer 13

"Religion is the realization of Spirit as Spirit; not Spirit as matter.

Religion is a growth. Each one must experience it for oneself. The Christians believe that Jesus Christ died to save us all. With Christians it is belief in a doctrine and this belief constitutes their salvation. In Vedanta, doctrine has nothing whatever to do with salvation. Each one may believe in whatever doctrine he or she likes, or in no doctrine at all.

What difference does it make to you whether Jesus Christ lived at a certain time or not? What has it to do with you that Moses saw God in the burning bush? The fact that Moses saw God in the burning bush does not constitute your seeing Him, does it? If it does, then the fact that Moses ate is enough for you; you ought to stop eating. One is just as sensible as the other. Records of great spiritual luminaries of the past do us no good whatever except that they urge us onward to do the same, to experience religion ourselves. Whatever Christ or Moses or anybody else did does not help us in the least, except to urge us on.

Every one has a special nature peculiar to oneself, which they must follow and through which they will find their way to freedom. Your teacher should be able to tell you what your particular path in nature is and to put you in it. The teacher should know by your face where you belong and should be able to indicate it to you. You should never try to follow another's path, for that is their way, not yours. When your own path is found, you have nothing more to do than fold your arms and the tide will carry you to freedom. Therefore when you find your path, never swerve from it. Your way is the best for you, but that is no proof that it is the best for others as well.

The truly spiritual see Spirit as Spirit, not as matter. It is Spirit that makes nature move. Spirit is the reality in nature. Action is in nature, not in the Spirit. Spirit is always the same, changeless, eternal. Spirit and matter are in reality the same; but Spirit, as such, never becomes matter; and matter, as such, never becomes Spirit.

The Spirit never acts. Why should it? It merely is, and that is sufficient. It is pure existence absolute and has no need for action.

You-as Spirit-are not bound by law. Law belongs to nature. The mind is in nature and is bound by law. All nature is bound by law, the law of its own action, and this law can never be broken. If you could break a law of nature, all nature would come to an end in an instant. There would be no more nature. Those who attain freedom break the law of nature, and for them nature fades away and has no more power over them. All of us will one day break the law for all time, and that will end our trouble with nature.

Relatively speaking, Governments, societies, etc. are evils. All societies are based on bad generalization. The moment you form yourselves into an organization, you begin to hate everybody outside of that organization. When you join an organization, you are putting bounds upon yourself, you are limiting your own freedom. The greatest goodness is the highest freedom. Our aim should be to allow the individual to move towards this freedom. More of goodness, less of artificial laws. Such laws are not laws at all. If it were a law, it could not be broken. The fact that these so-called laws are broken, shows clearly that they are not "laws." A law is that which cannot be broken.

Whenever you suppress a thought, it is simply pressed down out of sight, in a coil like a spring, only to spring out again at a moment's notice, with all the pent-up force resulting from the suppression, and do in a few moments what it would have done in a much longer period.

Every ounce of pleasure brings its pound of pain. It is the same energy that at one time manifests itself as pleasure, at another time as pain. As soon as one set of sensations stops, another begins. But in some cases, in more advanced persons, one may have two, yea, even a hundred different thoughts entering into active operation at the same time.

Mind is action of its own nature. Mind-activity means creation. The thought is followed by the word, and the word by the form. All of this creating will have to stop, both mental and physical, before the mind can reflect the Spirit." - Swami Vivekananda.

Answer 14

WOW, that question is awesome... No joke, where is the source however to the satan quotes, i would love to read them, if you could post them, that would be great... But that does make a lot of sense however..

Answer 15

not sure im not a christian.

Answer 16

IF there really is a god, and there really is a devil; and they both live in mystical places known as "heaven" and "h**l".....

You are starting off with a false assumption. You seem to have set up God and Satan in their own little forts on opposite sides of a battle field that we are in the middle of. This is in error. Satan does not have a domain. He is not the ruler of 'h**l', as you call it. Actually, h**l is just the grave, as the Bible uses the term. You are probably thinking about the bottomless pit of Revelation, but this is not Satan's domain, it is his prison. He will be the first victim of it, not it's ruler. He is in exile on earth for the time being for having tried to usurp the throne of God.

Secondly, Satan is a creation of God's, just like us. As such, he is not worthy of worship, more so since he is a fallen creation. Of all the things that God has made, surely you could find something better than a failed angel to venerate.

Satan cannot accept you into anywhere. He has not the power to send you to Heaven or h**l (bottomless pit). He cannot get into Heaven, and doesn't want to get into the pit. His only power in this world is temptation. All he can really do is corrupt God's creation by tempting us and twisting the truth.  

Answer 17

Even though it's been asked before, it's still a good question.

IF I could be certain of their existence, I might consider speaking to Satan instead of God.  The red bloke certainly does seem more accepting of our flaws as humans and doesn't expect us to live in constant conflict with our own nature.

Answer 18

It makes no sense to me.

Answer 19

Your patronising tone is offensive.

Your theology is juvenile

and your  logic is insipid

I doubt you really care for an honest discussion, but are looking to offend, to show your superior intellect to those that believe the so-called myth.  

We got it wrong, Satan had us yokels fooled all along.

Thanks for fixing that and in such an original way!

By the way you can ask God himself if you want and he will give you an answer. But you have to seek Him in spirit and truth.

Answer 20

You will surely know God when you breathe your last breath.  Just don't look to us, who will be with God, for any water when you are in the lake of fire.

Answer 21

Hypothetically....

IF there really is a god, and there really is a devil; and they both live in mystical places known as "heaven" and "h**l".....

*** Actually, Satan resides on the earth.  He is not in h**l yet; he is unbound and gets to roam freely.  The book of Job, as well as 1 Peter 5:8 states that Satan roams about on this earth. ***



What if christianity was deceived from the very beginning and they've been praying to the wrong guy ever since? *** Then Satan has healed my sicknesses, delivered me from my addictions, healed my children, fills me with peace, hope, and joy - all this while I go about saying bad things about him and denying his holiness. ***

I offer the following as potential evidence of this deception:

-Satan is known as "the father of lies", and "the great deceiver"...would this not be the greatest deception possible?  *** What is this evidence of?  He decieves through religion, making men think they are holy and doing things for God and in God's name when in fact, they are not.  e.g. the Crusades, the Inquisition, slavery, killing the Indians, praying to saints, "just being good," etc.

-God sacrificed his son to torture and death; likely even authoring this whole scenario in order to pay for our "sins".  *** Jesus volunteered for the duty, God did not mandate it.  It was part of the plan from the beginning in order to redeem mankind.  You need to understand covenant law and why the Levitical sacrificial system was put in place - simply stated, sin demanded death and instead of our death, God provided a substitute (animals) to be an atonement (covering) of our sins.  Jesus' blood does not atone, it erases.

-Satan's son is supposed to unite all people under one flag for a common cause  *** ...and that cause is to worship HIM, Satan as the Antichrist.  It is not Satan's son, Satan is incapable of having children, being an angellic being and all.

-The greatest sin of mankind was to eat from "the tree of knowledge". Why would seeking knowledge be such a bad thing? What is he trying to hide?  *** Look where the knowledge of Godd and Evil has gotten us.  What could the world be like with no death, no disease, no crime or sin?  Instead, we have what we got now because of this knowledge.  Perhaps God wasn't such an idiot....

-God will allegedly dish out infinite amounts of horrific torture for very finite "sins".  *** ...and we have all been warned of this, so choose wisely.

-Satan will accept us into his domain regardless of what we have or haven't done.  *** That is because he wants plenty of company where he knows he is going.  His goal is to destroy mankind.

-Consider the genocidal campaigns of Joshua and others. They were ordered to kill every living person (women, children, even the unborn), in various villages that worshipped some other deity. Is murderous jealousy really an attribute of a loving deity?  *** ALL these people were given opportunity to leave ISRAEL's land, or to accept God.  They were destroyed for refusing and rebelling.  Completely justified.

-h**l is alleged to be a horrific place of eternal torture, yet our only source for this knowledge is from a book that was supposedly inspired by the very being it instructs us to worship. Consider your sources...

*** They have been CAREFULLY considered and investigated.  How about yours?  I think you are being one-sided and not weighing all the evidence; only looking at that which fits your expectations or ideals.

Your hypotheticals are not proofs or evidence, they are opinions.  

Answer 22

d**n, you beat me to it!

Answer 23

The Bible is the most gruesome book I have ever read. If Christians are not being mislead by the "devil" they are surely following a very psychotic deity. Sorry I'm not disagreeing and probably not giving you anything new to think about...I think you are more right then you now lol.  

Answer 24

I've seen more than a few Theistic Satanists make this very same argument.

It's an intriguing perspective, and while I am more on the Pantheistic side of things, it is an interesting way to play Devil's Advocate.

Literally.