A question about Justin Martyr and pagan myths?

Question

I have recently been reading Justin Martyr’s First Apology. The whole premise of this work is comparing the beliefs and traditions of the newly formed Christian religion with those of the pagan religions, with Justin making the case that Christians should not be persecuted for their beliefs because they are no different from what the pagans teach.

This blows me away because there seems to be a consensus among Christians, especially on this forum, that there ARE no similarities between Christianity and pagan mythology and if there are, it is because they were fabricated to imitate Christianity. But here is one of the earliest known Christian apologists, from the 2nd century, enumerating their similarities.

So my question is: Do Christians read the writings of early church leaders, theologians, and apologists, such as Justin? If not, why not?

Answer 1

The first historians of 0-500AD all compared Christianity to be akin to Paganism. I think it was really the Dark Ages that destroyed all these connections for people. I was a bit shocked as well, I read those passages somewhere. That this new modern Christianity should be taken at the same face value as the Pagan Gods. That they are interchangable in fact. Realistically people do forget history, sadly few enjoy reading it.

EDIT: On second thought it really could be just as simple as marketing it to people in a way they understood. There is a lot of strategic resoning behind the using of Pagan dates to mark the Christian dates. It could have just been a way to help people understand this new and modern religion. Ironic I know, that Christianity was once deemed modern.

Answer 2

Some of us do and they are quoted and referenced in our publications.

We know Christendom is pagan mythology....hence we do not practice holidays nor teach the proof texted pagan beliefs of trinity, hellfire, immortal soul, etc.

Debbie  [e-mail]

Answer 3

You need to understand a lot of early church writing, from Justin, to Tertullian, to Origen is very much apologetic, it is hard to pull doctrine.

It is the same as Paul speaking in Corinth and comparing the Statue of the Unknown god, to God. Justin is using parallels of philosphy to show that the pagans had a knowledge of god revealed through their conscience, and through revelation, but was not complete.

He is not saying that pagans = christiainity, he is making claims to show paganism to be false and how Christianity is true.

Answer 4

christians make stuff up as needed, and have the power to forget the bad or uncomfortable things, look at how many times they have changed the bible.

Answer 5

Have never read his writings since I have never seen the need. I will have to do so now since you have brought it up.

As a general subject I have not read any of the earlier church leader's writings, outside of what is in the bible, as I consider most of those writings to be entirely for upper church leaders.

I have no doubt there are similarities between the bible and myths, what better way to introduce doubt and cloud issues than to do it. Classic strategy on Satan's part.

Take for instance the Nephalim in the OT. They are the actual basis for many of the Greek legends like Heracles and such.

Answer 6

The whole premise of that Roman church making saints was to bring pagan figures and therefore their followers into the fold.  It is no secret and has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.

*  I have read many of them out of curiosity, since I rarely take anyones word for anything.  Haigology is interesting and horrifying at the same time.  It is superstitious nonesense though.  I am a Christian and obviously not of the Roman flavor.

Answer 7

Justin was probably educated in the works of philosophers and thinkers that preceded him. As I understand him, he states that there are several points of coincidence between Christianity and pagan philosophy. He basically believes that philosophers possessed certain truth which is reflected in Christianity. He expounds this truth in his doctrine of the Logos (reason or word). The doctrine of the Logos developed by Justin paved the way for Christians to appropriate themselves of the good things of philosophy without feeling that they compromised their faith by doing so.

Now, there are several ways to approach your question. I'll just stick to what I think is briefest. If you believe the Word of God (i.e., the Bible) is truth, then its teachings must be true. If anyone unconnected to the Bible teaches something that happens to be true, then it must line up with the Bible. Therefore, it is possible that philosophers and pagan religions may teach/believe things that are common with the Bible, or Christianity in particular, provided those things are true.

I do read Justin Martyr's works and those of other thinkers, philosophers, and religious "fathers". My opinion is that a Christian who wants to be informed on certain matters should also read them. However, I do not hold their writings as authoritative. (And I realize there are plenty of those who do.)

I hope that helps. Regards.

Answer 8

Please see the link below. Our Holy Orthodox Church was built on by the early Fathers, Theologians, and Saints.

Instructions of the Holy Fathers on Spiritual Life

Part I

--------------------------------------...

by Bishop Alexander (Mileant)

translated by Seraphim Larin / Elizabeth Schade

Introduction

This booklet appears as the first in a series of collections, from which we intend to publish the selected instructions of Orthodox ascetic fathers concerning Christian living. In compiling this first collection, the following books were used: Five tome collection of "Philokalia" (edited by Theophan the Recluse); "The Ladder" of Blessed John, Abbot of the Sinai hills; "Spiritually Beneficial Instructions" of Abba Dorotheos; "Unseen War" of St.Nikodemus of the Holy Mount; thoughts of Sylian of Athos; "Otechnik" of Bishop Ignatius Branchaninov, and other various ascetic collections. From these works, we have selected those instructions that apply to people living secular lives, and disregarded those sections that are essentially relevant to a monastic or reclusive environment.

Judging by the large number of pre-revolutionary catalogues of publications, the Lives of Saints and their directives were favorite reading to the spiritually disposed Russian individual. Indeed, it is this literature that contains within itself a power of attraction, because it is not a dry and abstract philosophy but reflects a saintly life in a righteous soul. To read about his life or his instructions is like visiting him and drawing upon his treasury of spiritual experiences.

Who are these venerable men — ascetics and how are they unlike other Christians? While the majority of people were content to lead ordinary lives, these were people since ancient times, in Christ’s Church, whom He called "not of the world" (John 17:14). These righteous individuals dedicated their lives totally to God by isolating themselves away from worldly cares and falsehood, in wastelands, in deep forests, or in some other way shielded themselves from earthly temptations and the presence of outsiders. These were people thirsting for the truth, pining for higher spiritual values and ablaze with love for God, seeing the Kingdom of Heaven as their only motherland. Some of these righteous individuals attained spiritual heights and experienced blessed enlightenment that a majority of people could never see or imagine.

Saint Gregory the Theologian, who got acquainted with the blessed consciousness of hermitical existence, justified his flight into the wilderness — before his parishioners — in the following way:

"Above all else, as though having locked my feelings, I wanted to remove myself from the flesh and the world, convoke within myself, in the absence of extreme need — shun everything worldly, conversing with myself and God, live above the visible and carry within myself images of God that are always pure and not mixed with earthly and deceiving impressions. I wanted to be and continually develop as a genuinely pure mirror of God and divinity, procure light — to a light that is not as clear in brilliance, to reap now the blessings of the Age to come, cohabit with the Angels and while still being on earth, to leave it and be raised to the pinnacle of heights by the Holy Spirit. Those of you who are familiar with this love will understand what I am saying."

The names of the majority of ascetics that shared St.Gregory’s aspirations — and their spiritual experiences — remained unknown to the world. However, from time to time and for the benefit of the faithful, God would reveal to the world some of His chosen. This unexpected meeting with one or another of these ascetics left a serene and salutary effect on that person. Sometimes, this acquaintance became the turning point in that person’s life, igniting a desire within him to relocate closer to the holy figure so that he could emulate his righteous living.

In this way, around a solitary ascetic, a gradual gathering of people (brotherhood) ensued, eventually forming a hermitage or monastery. Parallel to this, by placing themselves under the spiritual guidance of an experienced starets-teacher, the novices of the monastery, as well as pilgrim-visitors, assisted in the consolidation of "starchestvo" — the practice where people sought and received spiritual direction from an old, competent and pious monk. Our native history tells us what the salutary influence was on the Russian people from the numerous monasteries, abbeys and retreats that were strewn across the vast expanses of Holy Russia. The Kievo-Pechersk Monastery, Trinity-Sergius Monastery, Valaam Monastery, Solovets Abbey, Optina Retreat and others were centers of moral rehabilitation.

The startsi-ascetics rarely wrote expressive sermons, usually keeping them concise. Although as a rule, their preceptorials were responses to specific questions from visitors, to this day they exude  

Answer 9

Your first mistake was to use actual evidence in a religious forum.

Your second mistake was to present your argument logically.

Thus, no one will answer your question. :D

Answer 10

Justin Martyr is very controversial, many question if he was a Saint, Apostate or Sinner it all depends on which favor of Christianity you follow. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God ", you will find the answer you seek.

Answer 11

Pagan ritual was incorporated into Christianity even from the biblical script itself. By the very words of Jesus, his disciples are commanded to "drink my blood" and "eat my flesh".

This is a practice, symbolic of course, which Christians still partake in. Drinking the blood and eating the flesh of a sacrifice which was slain to deter the wrath of God. This was a practice common to Mithraism, and numerous other pagan religions although those who followed Mithraic teachings sacrificed a bull and would drink the bull's blood and eat it's flesh. If a bull was not available, however, fish, sheep, or even bread and wine could be substituted.

In short, Christianity IS a pagan religion and follows a hodge podge of pagan traditions, as many of the pagan religions do. Christians do not recognize this, of course, even as they partake in the blood and flesh ritual on a weekly basis, and make an allowance for Jesus.

Excuses abound for these types of practices among Christians. Logic and reason, though, remain pretty sparse.

Answer 12

Yes, they do read them, but those parts which they don't like are quickly ignored and eventually forgotten.

Tertullian and Firmicus Maternur made similar statements regarding the similarities between pagan gods and Jesus and went on to claim that the Devil had sent the earlier gods in order to confuse mankind when Jesus arrived. They've even got a name for it: Diabolical Mimicry.

Eusebius (one of the best known historians of the early church) claimed that a group of pagans called the Theraputae were the very first Christians. The religions were obviously so close together that even the church's top historian couldn't tell the difference!

Answer 13

"Do Christians read the writings of early church leaders, theologians, and apologists, such as Justin?"

do some?  sure!   but do *most*?  nope

"If not, why not?"

ironically, because it's not in the Bible

Answer 14

The early leaders of christianity provide evidence of the true nature of christianity. This primitive religion isn't in keeping with the new modern christianity which reads the bible in a different way from the early christians. It is best for them to disown their history and pretend that their collective beliefs have remained unchanged and have always been interpreted the same way.

Answer 15

If people really looked into what they hold dear as christian traditions and teachings, they would be horrified. Well some would be, and some would try to say 'we don't do it for the same reasons that they did'.

But the bible clearly tells us to stay clear of it.

Answer 16

First thing you have to keep in mind, is that not all Christians are going to pay any attention to those writings because they are considered Catholic.

Sad but true, some Protestants have forgotten that they woudln't even have had anything to revolt against had it not been for the Roman Catholic Church. Some Protestants dont think that Catholics are really Christians, so they dont care at all about what early Catholic Saints thought about anything.

This is something that is actually honestly most likely to be studies by scholars in a theology class, probably at a Roman Catholic university, or a seminary. Its not something the everyday bible scholar is going to learn about.

I only know who Justin Martyr is because I went to a Catholic University.

There are many schools of thought, even in Catholicism, and opinions of the Saints are not the same as doctrinal matters.

Another good point, is that these writings are not in the bible. With the entire Sola Scriputura belief of Protestantism, the emphasis is placed so much upon the bible that reading something by a Catholic Saint is not exactly emphasised  or encouraged.

(Must seek forgiveness from the one who predicated no one would actually answer this question because it used evidence and was intelligent. I hate to prove people wrong.)