A question about adoption loss?

Question

Laurie- seeing you put it that way tells me that 'negate' is the wrong term for what I'm trying to describe, but I can't think of a better one right now.

Do you also tell people that there is the possibility that they won't feel that way, since there are also a lot of people that don't? (In the interest of offering all possibilities of what's possible. I don't feel that only saying one side is fair, as you might find people who, after being told that they might feel this way find that they don't and are wondering why.)

Answer 1

I am looking to adopt and my husband and i will only adopt in an open arrangement. Yes, ideally a child would be raised by both biological parents (not necessarily married to one another but both present) and have everything they physically and emotionally need. Unfortunately we do not live in an ideal world.

I know or have known about 15 people who have been adopted. And they have all been very different. The ones who have done best were the ones who always knew they were adopted and had some contact with their adoptive family. One man I know very well always knew he was adopted and when he was young (10ish) he asked his adopted mother "Why didn't my other mommy want me?" and they were prepared, his biological mother had written him a letter explaining that she was very poor, and her mother had died and her father was not a very nice man, but she loved him very much and she picked his "new mommy and daddy" for him. She explained that they were catholic like her, and that they had let her give him his middle name which was her brothers name, and that she promised to say a prayer for him every day. And from that day on he said a prayer for her everyday with his adoptive parents. When he was 18 he found her and they have a wonderful relationship and when I asked him how he felt about the whole thing he said "I had a tough time as a teenager, I always imagined my life would be better with her because my parents didn't understand me and my biological mom would have. But that's not true no teenager thinks their parents understand them. But now that I'm an adult I know that I have had two faithful, strong, caring woman praying for me for the last 25 years and in the last 7 since I met my birth mom, I have had 2 strong woman instead of 1 to kick my *** when I don't act like a gentleman." Finally he said, "My mom (adopted) was meant to be a mother, God made her to be a mother, there has never been a better one and if she hadn't adopted she wouldn't have been one, I'm just glad I got to be the kid that got the best mother in the world and that my birth-mom let me go."

So my friend feels the gain out-weighed the loss. Now I also know a girl who was raped by her adopted uncle when she was very young and when she met her birth-mom when she was about 21 it turned out she wanted to keep her but her parents forced her to give my friend up for adoption. No gain there.

Just like biological families, sometimes adopted families are wonderful, and sometimes they are awful. Anyone who makes any blanket statements about loss vs gain (or however you chose to phrase it) is naive. If you are the "survivor" of a bad adoptive situation I understand the feeling that adoption is bad and traumatic, but realize that my friend thinks it's the best thing in the world because he's the "product" of an ideal and wonderful situation. Everyone and everything is unique.

Answer 2

In the case of infant adoption, the adoptee suffers a profound loss.  It is an assault on the psyche, the spirit, the soul, the humanity... the core sense of self.  It is a primal experience.

For an infant, the loss of mother is a fate worse than death.  An infant's neurochemistry does not allow him to understand that someone other than mother could care for him.  An infant's neurochemistry tells him that he will die from losing his mother.  

For an infant, the mother/child dyad is everything.  It is the Universe.  It is God.  Separated, he is not capable of understanding that he might survive.  Yet, his instinct for survival allows him to live (whether he is cared for or abused) nevertheless.

This is not something that a human being decides to have feelings about.  It is a devastating primordial experience that he either buries or deals with.  Whether he buries it or deals with it, and how he deals with it, depends on his subsequent experiences as a permanently separated (adopted) person.

I believe any adult adoptee who says s/he is fine with it if - and ONLY if - I am also convinced that s/he has worked through it at some point in his/her life.  If s/he tells me there is nothing to deal with, I know s/he is lying - more to her/himself than to me.  No human being can experience such an assault at the very beginning of LIFE ITSELF without being profoundly affected by it.

Answer 3

Hi Sarah,

I believe it is possible that a loss can be stuffed aside to the point where a person does not allow themselves to feel it.  

There are no guarantees that an adoptee will be able to do that.  Nor should they be encouraged to do so.  Even if they do convince themselves their loss was worth it, there are no guarantees that something later in their life will not trigger those feelings to the surface.  Sometimes the birth of their own child or a death of a parent can awaken feelings in adoptees that they did not know they had.  I have known many adoptees for whom this is true.  

Other adoptees have been honest with themselves all along.  There is pain & loss associated with being relinquished or separated from natural family for whatever reason, that changes an adoptee's life forever.  Nothing that later comes along can ever negate that their maternal bond was broken, their identity was changed, and their rights permanently taken away.  Those losses are real!  That's not to say nothing good will ever happen in their life.  The losses still should not be denied or trivialized.

Thanks for asking.  I hope that helps explain it.

julie j

reunited adoptee

Answer 4

I agree with you completely sarah.. the question is well thought out and your points are very valid..

The fact is that no one (not even the person relinquishing) can fully predict how it will affect them or their child.. LET ALONE STRANGERS.. Yesterday I saw someone tell a woman considering adoption.. "It WILL ruin your life and your child's"  I was like.. WHOAH.. hold on a sec!! How can anyone say that?? they may feel it ruined their life.. As I countered in my answer (which BTW was NOT encouraging the woman to relinquish, but simply to not let ANYONE make the decision for her, either way)  Anyway, as I said in MY answer it would be VERY unfair and ridiculous for me to go around telling everyone who is looking at wisdom teeth extraction... "Oh, it's a piece of cake.. You'll be high throughout the surgery, it will be virtually painless, you'll be eating hogies that night, little swelling and lightning fast recovery."  Just because that's what happend to me does NOT mean everyone experiences the same thing, and that wisdom teeth extraction affects everyone the same.. There is NO WAY for me to know how their surgery is going to go..

I think women should definitely be WARNED that adoption can cause serious, sometimes lifetime, regret for them and their child.. I think they should be told that chances are higher that they will experience regret with relinquishment than the chance that they will regret parenting.. That's probably true, and fair enough.. But the fact that people need to realize is that everyone's experience is different.. Because I had a great life with my Bio family and would chose my mom out of the whole world to be my mom, does this mean that is the case for all biologically raised children? Even those raised their entire life with both biological parents who stay married until death?  No, of course not.. So we should not be telling women that adoption is a "win-win" and a "Great choice" neither should they be telling women that adoption "WILL ruin their life and their child"..

it goes both ways..

Amen to Confitemeaculpa..

My whole point has always been "Who the he** can predict?"   Should my bro and his wife, mature, stable couple, have aborted their children (which they wanted) because who knows... they could both die in a car accident while the kids were being babysat, and the kids could end up in foster care with abusive people?  How far do we take a "maybe"

Each woman facing an unplanned pregnancy should weigh both options (I say "Both" instead of "all" Because I see most abortions as murder and feel the government should see it the same way.. I make no apologies for this) and make the best choice she can.. that's all we can do in ANYTHING in life.. make the best, informed, decision for US and OUR situation.. no one can make the decisions for us, and strangers certianly cannot KNOW how we will react to wisdom teeth surgery, or relinquishment, or being adopted, or dropping out of college, or going into law...

Answer 5

Gershoms post is very interesting.....

I can tell you that when dd came home from the hospital she would not sleep in her cradle.....she cried and wanted to held quite often. I remember wondering to myself if this was unusual. I had been around many of my nephews and cousins when they came home and do not remember this......it wasn't until one night she feel asleep with me that she was contented at bedtime. She is now seven and just started sleeping in her own bed. I swear she suffered from some sort of seperation anxiety......ofcourse everyone I mentioned it too thought it was silly. WOW!!! Now it makes complete sense to me.   Now  do no jump all over me....this was our experience and I am not trying to tell anyone what they should think about theirs.

Answer 6

There is both a gain and loss in adoption. In most cases there is a big gain. Understanding of what happened in the first place must be first on the list. Without this understanding all is lost. The question of real concern must be what did I loose? Most find out that what they lost would have gained them nothing. Not all adoption cases turn out good. Some are adopted into families who are not stable and children just put of the fire into the frying pan. But for those adoptions that do work out well then much is gained and little is lost

Answer 7

When I speak of loss, there are different kinds of it.

Many different kinds of loss. I think some are recoverable. Some effect us forever, but both impact us in one way or another. Loss of mother, is a traumatic event for a child, can we all agree on that? Does anyone here not think its traumatic for a baby to lose his/her mother when born or anytime after?

Has anyone heard of Marcy Axness? She was interviewed for this page ( which talks about validating the trauma adopted infants experience):

"A Therapist Counsels Parents of Adopted Babies, Hospitalized Babies and other babies separated from their mothers at birth" found here: http://www.healingresources.info/article...

If you haven't heard of Marcy Axness phD heres a blurb about her:

"Marcy Axness, Ph.D. writes and speaks internationally about the complex tapestry of attachment, and is a leading authority on adoption. Her dissertation, Malattachment and the Self Struggle: Separation, Survival, and Healing, weaves together prenatal psychology, attachment neurobiology, consciousness research, theology and even quantum physics to suggest the rudiments of a new paradigm for rethinking early human development. Specializing in fertility, adoption, and the very early years, Dr. Axness helps thoughtful people become conscious parents with her Quantum Parenting practice ~ the mindful application of leading-edge research to support optimal early development. She lives in Southern California with her husband and two children, ages 16 and 20. "

And after that, if you can accept that there is trauma that happens to each infant, then understanding how trauma effects each of us is important too: http://www.trauma-pages.com/a/perry96.ph...

Because its not like you can just get up and walk away from it everything okay. Its a process. It effects many of us differently and while great parenting can minimze the effects to a certain degree, they can't take them away. By not telling surrendering mothers that this happens to their child, that trauma happens when the child loses her, and that the trauma could effect her for the rest of the potential adoptees life, you're not informing her of the reality of the situation.

These are caring mothers. Who are looking at adoption because they want to make sure they're doing everything thats right for their children. Many are buying into the idea that adoption gives them more, without knowing the damage that can be guaranteed to happen to the adoptee. What happens after the damage can't be guaranteed. But the trauma from separation can be.

No matter the "gain" after the loss, the loss still exists. For some, especially foster children who were abused and need that second home for a second start at life, that "gain" will exceed the loss, but the loss is still with them. Gain doesn't wipe away loss.

Do you tell a child who's been removed from a home for molestation and adopted into a foster family that the gain negated the loss? Heck no. That shouldn't happen to anyone. Nobody should have to go through THAT in order to "gain."

Adoptees shouldn't "lose a mother/father" to gain the luxuries of adoption.... what equates to "gain" anyways? stability? pony? permanence? I think gain could be a personal experience as well. To me and my experience the loss of my mother isn't replaceable by any amount of gain.

There is also a part of me, that doesn't see much above the "gain" of being with my mother. For me, that is the greatest loss, aside from losing my children. Whats a greater loss than losing a mother who wants and cares for you? Nothing that I can think of.

I guess recovery of loss may depend partly on the care of the mother to the child pre-separation.

To me, A loss is a loss is a loss.

its late, i'm crashin' crazy day...forgive me if this doesn't make sense, i'm tired.

Answer 8

it doesn't necessarily have to be a loss! It can be a win win situation.  The new parents are gaining a child to love and take care of BUT also the parent giving up the child will know that the child will have a much better life than what she was able to offer=D

Answer 9

Whenever I personally talk about adoption loss, trauma, feelings...whatever, I am very careful to qualify it by saying "many", or "a good number of" adoptees, and/or to take personal responsibility for the feelings I'm discussing.

I haven't seen anyone else saying that a first mother or adoptee absolutely WILL feel a certain way, but there have been many studies to show that a great deal of adoptees have similar feelings and experiences regarding being adopted.

Adoption does create a loss for the adoptee in multiple ways:

1) They lose their mother.

2) They lose a feeling of control in their lives due to the decisions regarding their adoption being made for them, without their consent.

3) They lose their history, culture, ancestry, identity.

4) They lose a sense of safety, trust in others and belief in their worthiness.

And frankly, I don't see what the gain is that you're talking about. The adoptee loses one set of parents and gains another? That sounds more like a trade. And if you consider the fact that the family that is lost is the biological family, with all the culture, family history, shared personality traits and interests, and ancestry of the adoptee, and the family gained has none of that...it still seems that the adoptee loses a lot.

Answer 10

Thanks for trying to understand, I know how hard that is because I didn't "get it" when I first came to this site about some issues. When I found this site I was very angry. I hated all PAP's, AP's, and I sure didn't understand what the heck all these adoptees were "whining" about. All I knew was my pain. As a first mom, I was angry at all of these people. I was so hurt, and NEVER had an outlet for YEARS. To me, at the time, I thought that AP's have their children, one of them was MINE, so why were they even here? They had all their friend and families to "rahrah" with about having a baby. No one says anything negative to them. The PAP's were the "stalkers" in my mind. They could cry about not being able to have babies and everyone felt sorry for them and they would get all the sympathy in the world. The Adoptees, left me thinking, "Are you serious???". Not only did they get a "better" family, they could always go out and find their "biological" ones and they had the best of both worlds.



Where were the women like me?? We were lied to about "open" adoption, then I suddenly went from being "strong and courageous", to "what kind of woman would give up her baby?" I can safely tell you, that everything I heard pre-adoption was not what I heard post-adoption. I found that I had to keep my mouth shut. I couldn't date because I got tired of the questions that eventually led up to where I would tell the truth and get rejected, or I would have to lie. I decided it was best to be alone.

I know that PAP's are devasted by the loss of not being able to have children. They watch their family and friends have them and they know they have to look happy, but it cuts through like a knife. They go to the gynocologist office and they have pictures of women holding babies. It never ends. Everywhere they turn, there's a picture or a person with children. Sometimes they just cut themselves off from certain people because they aren't sensitive to what they are going through. The AP's were those women. So, they still mourn the loss, but they do have a child. But what they wouldn't give to have been the ones to carry the baby. To nurse the baby. They still missed out on the experience of having a baby. Now they have to deal with the idiots that say is that your "real" baby? The list of comments is endless, especially when they do it in front of the child. The adoptees issues were the ones I was most unfamiliar with. I had no idea that everytime they had to fill out a medical form, they had to put, "I don't know". Or whatever. It was blank. This happens through their entire lifetime. I didn't know they even wanted their orginal birth certificates. Then I found out that they are the only part of the population that wasn't allowed this information. Then I spent alot of time putting myself in their shoes to realize that frustration. I didn't realize how as babies they were traumatized. I have researched it and there's no denying it. Some who aren't aware of it, manifest it in other ways, but aren't aware that the seperation from the mother is the root to why they act they way they do.

Sarah, you mentioned that you didn't understand why when a pregnant woman came to this site and is thinking of adoption, why we are so adament on telling her about the loss that she will feel. Because no one else will. No one told me. I had no clue how I would feel once I gave birth. I had no clue that it was possible to keep my baby. I was bombarded with people telling me that a child deserves 2 parents in a home. I know that my daughter, "Lauren" is now what you would say is from a "broken" home. Her parents divorced. I know lots of adoptees who have divorced parents. So, that just doesn't mean anything. I was told that she would have more from being adopted. A nice house, country club, travel, the best education. I grew up with all of that, so I thought, yes she must have that.

Then I had my son. I never would have had him, had I not suffered the loss of my daughter. It was an "open" adoption. When I got the phone call that I couldn't see her anymore, all I remember is screaming and falling to the floor. I completely lost my mind. I lost my memory. I couldn't remember where I worked, who I knew, I have years that I cannot get back. Over time, I get little snippets that I had forgotten about. I had one last week. I just don't remember alot. Some things I wish I could forget.

I feel like I need to let women know that they need to do all they can to try to keep their child. My son grew up in a single home. We didn't have alot, but the one thing everyone commented on was how happy he was. He was always laughing and smiling. He had all my love. We started off living in a dump. Every year got a little better than the year before. He didn't know he was "missing" out on anything. He still doesn't. Things have definitly gotten better. When I finish school, things will be even better than. He does have ALOT that I didn't have. He has learned to enjoy the simple things. He doesn't ask me for stuff. He is a giver. He appreciates what he has. I was a spoiled, entitled brat. It's hard to come down the social and economic ladder. It's easier going up. He's going up. Children need love.

I think that a mom needs to know, have your baby, see how it goes, if you find that you don't / can't take care of the baby and you really don't want to parent, THEN relinquish. Some women really don't want to parent. I will say that anyone who carries a baby and then can give their child away and be "okay dokey" with it, is missing something emotionally or is in denial. If they feel that way, then great, they did the right thing. I hope they have enough sense not to have anymore children. It just doesn't ring true to me that they can lose one child and it be great, then have other children and not feel something.

When you say a child has gained something, what is it? Most first moms do want their babies, they've just come upon bad times, but it will change. They don't know that. It is horrible to lose a child. It really is. Have you ever lost a child? I just don't know many mothers who've lost a child who haven't thought it was the worst moment in their lives. When it's through relinquishment it is unlike anything you can ever imagine. You feel like a loser and it's confirmed by others when you least expect it. I don't talk about it, hardly anyone knows about my situation, but I hear them talk about it. I have heard adoptees say they hated their first moms because she gave them away. I had to listen to this everyday at work because I sat next to 2 adoptees. They don't understand that their mothers got abandoned during their pregnancy, or were forced to relinquish. They were young, maybe they will learn.

I hope this helps.

Answer 11

If a woman gets raped, but meets a nice doctor at the hospital who she winds up marrying, does the gain negate the loss?

Answer 12

The loss is always real.  Everyone experiences and feels it in his or her own way -- some more, some less, some not at all.  But, people considering adoption need to be aware of this so that they are informed.

Even if someone feels a gain, that loss is not corrected by it.  That loss still remains.

ETA:

Sarah, you can't negate something as though it never happened.  But, as I said previously, "Everyone experiences and feels it in his or her own way -- some more, some less, some not at all."  I included the "some not at all" because I realize that some people, like your husband, do not have the emotional feeling of loss.

I don't tell anyone that they WILL feel this or that.  I DO tell people that these feelings are real for a lot of people.  That way they know the possibility.

ETA:

I try to just say it like I've said here...some feel a little, some a lot, some not at all.  I can't predict what someone will or won't feel, but I do know the possibilities.

ETA:

The posters below me also remind me that people's feelings about something change and surface in different ways at different times.  Women are known, in particular, to often start feeling adoption related issues only after having their own children.  Of course, this goes for feelings about anything, but we're just speaking of adoption loss at the moment.

Does this mean the person cannot do well despite this?  Of course not.  But, it's certainly a good thing, though, if a person doesn't start life off with a physical loss that can lead to these issues, though.  Just because it's not always possible doesn't mean it's not preferable.

Answer 13

i don't think any gain negates my loss.

just as i don't feel my need to find my bmother negates my happy childhood, my love for my parents and my life.

you, know, trying to explain the different feelings is like trying to explain what it's like to be white, or a female as opposed to black or a male.  you can't explain it unless you've lived it, you know what i mean?

but i am glad you asked:)

Answer 14

Thank you for such a thought provoking question.  Of course loss is subjective, just like happiness is, fulfillment is, sadness is.  For example, for some, loosing a job might be extremely significant in their lives.  Some people might flip out, sink into depression, and stay there.  Others may look at the opportunity to go back to school, and further there career opportunities.  Others might feel frustrated but go on out and find another job.  In another example, divorce may be perceived as a loss, but for some it is a way out of a negative life.  For others, it may be a very sad time in their lives.  

The obvious point is that we just cannot decide for SOMEONE ELSE what is and is not a loss.  If someone never felt the connection in the first place, it may or may not be a loss.  To loose something, you have to have it.  And some people simply do not acknowledge that connection in the same way that others do.

We must realize that we cannot tell people what they will or will not feel, or should or should not feel.  I know that the adoption abolitionists on this board would get real fired up if we adoption advocates told all potential birthmothers that they WILL NOT ever experience sadness or loss with adoption!  How presumptuous we would be.  How ignorant and dogmatic.  We are each unique, and to tell all women placing a child for adoption that they will feel loss sooner or later is one step short of intimidation.

Answer 15

After some of the conversations I've had with you lately, I have decided to change my wording to be a lot more all-inclusive.  Here's an answer I just posted to another question, which I think sums it up:

The important thing to remember is that we are all individuals, and will experience what we experience, regardless of what those around us think, say, or do.

As a PAP, I think it's my job to prepare for the worst AND the best. No matter what my children experience, I'd better be willing and able to handle it, and handle myself.

ETA:  I forgot to touch on the loss/gain thing.  This is a totally different situation, but I'm just using it as an example.  I was married once before.  My previous husband was abusive.  I had to get divorced (loss) in order to get remarried (gain).  I was happy to lose my ex husband.  Matter of fact, during the 7 years between husbands, I was "happily divorced" and "professionally single" to anyone who asked.  Not everyone feels this way about divorce.  Not everyone has a party on the anniversary of the day they left their ex.  (BTW, 10 years as of Feb. 22!!!  Yippee for me!!!!!!!!)  But the loss of my ex husband has nothing whatsoever to do with the gaining of a new husband.  Yes, the loss had to occur in order for the gain to occur, but the two have nothing to do with each other aside from that.  My second husband does NOT replace the first (THANK THE GODDESS FOR THAT!!!!!!!).  They are two separate issues, for me, about which I have totally different feelings.

Now, for some adoptees, the issues of relinquishment (or TPR) and adoption are intertwined, and for others they are separate issues.  But I don't think either of them have much to do with the other.  One had to occur in order for the other to occur.  That's it.  Just my  two cents.

Answer 16

I quite like Confitemeaculpa's reply - I do think that the loss-gain dynamic is very relative to the individuals involved.

The are three perspectives to look at the situation from, that of the biological mother, that of the adoptive mother and that of the child involved.

That's too many variables to come up with a definative answer.

I think I'm one of the lucky ones, I'm adopted, I have fantastic parents and have been lucky enough to meet my biological mother and have a very good relationship with her.

I can see the pain my birth caused for these two women, both who have had hugely important parts to play in my life, it's a pain that I caused but have no control over. I know that the loss was huge for my biological mother but I think the gain for my mother was greater and now having developed a relationship with my biological mother I can see that the gain for her now outweighs the loss of the past. In the grand scheme of things in this particular situation over 27 years, gain has been greater than loss - but EVERY situation is different.

Confitemeaculpa what your friend said about his mother

"My mom (adopted) was meant to be a mother, God made her to be a mother, there has never been a better one and if she hadn't adopted she wouldn't have been one, I'm just glad I got to be the kid that got the best mother in the world and that my birth-mom let me go."

- that's exactly how I feel - it's so nice to hear it from someone else too.