A question for feminists. Is this an anti feminist reaction?

Question

I recently heard that a rather well known womanising English comedian who I happen to quite like had attempted to rape a woman that he had gone out (a few years ago when he was overdoing the D&D) with but she wasn't interested in s*x. I heard this from a friend, whose wife is a friend of this woman, so this isn't gossip rag stuff.

Anyway, my honest reaction was 'well did he really try to rape her' and I realised how c**p that sounds - I didn't mean that she was lying, but unless a bloke is really puny he is going to be able to force a woman unless she is exceptionally strong. This bloke is no body builder, but he has to be 6'.

When does 'trying it on' become attempted rape?

And would my reaction been less c**p if it had been someone I didn't like? Jim Davidson for instance!

Answer 1

umm another one to add to that obama's its possible that it was attempted rape - but only in her head. And all that happened for anyone else's view was he tryed it on for a date a few too many times.

Sorry - but there are some women out there that do make it up, I knew one gal that alledged a guy (who I also knew) raped her infront of an area where there was cctv.

And after reading obama's posting waas the only detail left unexplored. And without evidence we can only -speculate- all the possibilties. Ofc she may well have just gouged his eyes and ran for it.

Answer 2

A women can escape... Attempted rape is when there is a clear intention to force a women to have s*x against her will.  It stops and doesn't lead to rape because someone intruded, because she had pepper spray, kicked him in his lucky charms, etc... It happens no matter how big the guy a women who is prepared or sometimes is just lucky can stop rape... That does not erase the attempt.

Answer 3

It could be interpreted as such if you had considered her to be a 'prick tease' or some such, but it doesn't sound like you did. I think that what you are getting at here is 'commitment to the act' on his part - if he REALLY had wanted to force her he could have done so, but probably many men who are physically capable of force and start out doing that find that they really cannot actually force a woman because they realise what a terrible thing it is they are doing.

The 'liking him' thing I totally empathise with - I really like Christian Bale, and reading that he has been accused of assault my his mother AND sister put me in a bit of a quandary. He is a big bloke, and there is no way that they could have been a match for him unless they attacked him together.

Probably if it had been someone much more easily loathsome it would be easier to swallow - but you do mention him being a womaniser, so it is likely that he is the sort of man who lets his libido get the better of him.

I wonder who it is!

Answer 4

I know it is hard to believe that someone you like can be a sh*t. That's how 'pillars of the community' have been able to get away with things like child abuse so often.

Attempted rape is very different to coming on to someone. Coming onto someone shows that you are constantly watching their signals to see if they match yours, and seeing if they invite a further response. Attempted rape is being completely impervious to the wishes of another and only thinking about what you want.

Also the physical size of a man doesn't really matter when a woman is frozen with fear. But perhaps the fact that it was only 'attempted' is a sign that he was small enough for her to fend him off.

Answer 5

Anyone who quibbles over what rape is is either a rapist or a potential rapist.  No means no.

Answer 6

No, the man is innocent until proven guilty.  If HE was trying to accuse HER of a crime, you wouldn't feel guilty at all for wanting to look at the facts.

Women DO lie about this at times.  I'm not saying she was, but she very well could have.

I'm not really a feminist, but oh well.

Answer 7

It becomes attempted rape the second one of the people involved will not accept the word NO.

I also think some women go out of their way to lead men on just to frustrate them. Although I agree that if a man continues after she says no that it is still rape - I do not think the girl is completely without blame.

Answer 8

Using force after a woman clearly says "No," is usually the legal definition of attempted rape.  It is treated as a battery or assault, and not a rape.  If there is penetration, even with no ejaculation, then it is treated as a rape.  Unwanted penetration of any o*****e is rape.

Answer 9

This is not an anti-feminist reaction as it has nothing specifically against feminists. However, I do think that this reaction demonstrates a failed understanding for women's rights to freedom from unwanted s*x.

It has nothing to do with women not wanting s*x, but with the fact that they have the right to choose their partners. Just as any man would want to be able to choose which women he sleeps with, every woman has a right to the same, and should never be forced into or coerced or manipulated into any kind of unwanted sexual activity.

I think it's important that you recognized the problems with your reactions and commend you for realizing that and wanting to be more respectful of the situation in the future.

First of all, a rape/sexual assault or attempted-rape/assault survivor's biggest fear is not being taken seriously. The best reaction you could therefore display would be a supportive one that doesn't question her claim. Considering the amount of scorn  and blame any woman will face for openly asserting that she was sexually assaulted, it's safe to assume that she wouldn't be crying wolf.

Rape is not simply a matter of physically pining a woman down and violently forcing oneself on her, although this does happen. It can involved manipulating, coercing or otherwise forcing a woman into s*x when she has already said no, or has not expressed consent. Most of the time it involved either a refusal to clarify the woman's consent or the man's inability to understand what consent entails.

If the situation is unclear, clarify. If a woman says no, it's no. If she pushes him away in away way, or fails to reciprocate it's no. If he does anything without a yes, it's no. One false move is ok if it's not violent or disrespectful - misunderstandings and mistakes can happen. But if he doesn't get a clear yes, and he keeps going, that's attempted rape.

Next time you hear about a woman getting raped, show some support for the survivor and take the opportunity to educate your peers about consent. It's important for men to do this too.

Thanks for your question.

Answer 10

I think I get what you're saying.  Him being a man of 6foot it's more likely that he would have actually raped her, not only attempted, right?

There could have been other factors, like she could have fought him off (regardless of his size a shot to the groin or eyes would do the trick), she could have escaped when he went to grab something or jumped out of the car. h**l, he could have tried and then last minute came to his senses and let her go.  

You never know.

Answer 11

"unless a bloke is really puny he is going to be able to force a woman unless she is exceptionally strong"

Nonsense. It's this kind of thinking that victimises women. A man can definitely attempt to rape a woman and be unsuccessful, even if he's large and she's small. I know personally of two cases, including my own.

That doesn't mean to say she wasn't lying, but perhaps you should look at both sides of the story before you make any judgment.