About an answer by Valerie C.... My question. Is killing justified?

Question

She answered to a question about disparity in the penalty of crimes between men and women. Here is what she wrote:

" Can you cite some stats to show this is true? I haven't seen any proof. In addition far fewer females engage in any sorts of violence compared to males.

And women who kill their spouses have been shown to have been abused for years before they do this. So there is some justification for their killing."

Ok, so first she isn't citing this abused for years comment and asks for citation to the asker.

AND SHE JUSTIFIES KILLING MEN BY THEIR SPOUSES.

My question is, is killing justified unless in self defense? And is the answer to verbal and physical assault to kill your partner? Really how many women support this?

I would cite my source:

A woman in UK set her husband on fire, while he was asleep claiming he abused her. She didn't quit him, nor filed a complaint to police. The husband died of severe burns, after suffering for 6 entire days, of organ failure and putrefaction of his skin and muscle. The women's right claimed it was a glorious day, and the wife was not charged for murder.

What is your answer?

Answer 1

I would not agree that her type of killing was justified since it would take a lot of planning to set someone on fire and that is pre- meditated murder.

However if she and her husband were fighting or he had just beaten her up again and she took out a weapon and stabbed or shot him just after she was beaten up again, I would say her action was justifiable.

Yes killing is justified even when it's not self defense. Suppose you had a daughter and some stranger came in and raped and killed her...and later, even years later you found out who did it. Wouldn't you feel that killing that guy is justified? I would.

Answer 2

murder is murder, no woman has a right to murder someone because he physically assualted her.  If women are too cowardly to leave a violent situation in this day and age with all the resources present, than that's their friggin problem.  And how many of these out ot lunch women return to these guys because they said "sowwy and pwetty pwease". That woman from your source is a scum bag murderer and nothing else.  If that's the women's rights example of a hero to the cause, than they are crazy as h**l.  Anna above is potentially the same.  So instead of packing a quick bag and leaving in the middle of the night while this guy is asleep, you mutilate and murder someone.  Bravery or cowardice, you choose.  

Answer 3

The example you cite is grisly!

I know nothing of your history with Valerie C,. nor her answer.

However, women in a physically abusive situation, often have no resources to help them.  Let me tell you a story...

Several years ago, my son's wife had a friend whose husband was a wife beater.  She had two small children.  The husband would come home from work about once per month & just beat her to a pulp.  When that happened, she would come to my son's house to get away from the husband.  

Once, this happened when my son was entertaining three "good ol' boy" house guests who were horrified that this woman was being abused.  They went to her house, pulled her husband outside, and just beat the heck out of him.  They told him that if they ever heard that he hit his wife again, they would be back.

It has been six years, and he has not yet hit his wife again.

Frankly, I think that if spouse abusers got this kind of "pay back," they would reform.

Unfortunately, most battered women don't have "good ol' boys" to go to bat for them.  If they slay the abusers, then more power to 'em!

You have obviously never been in an abusive situation!

Answer 4

Yes it's justified if it's for revenge, a person raped or killed your family member. Or it's an abusive spouse that's fine.

Answer 5

self defence would be killing your husband as he is attacking you....setting fire to him while he is asleep is not self defence...you are initiating the attack and subsequent murder...your not defending against anything...

E.G just because someone hits me....does not give me the right to wait till they are own thier own and run over and do them in with a baseball bat....im not defending anything its just plain assault....if how ever i hit back while he tried to hit me thats defence

I cant wait for the day when a husband can kill his wife while shes been mentally abusing him for years....would alll you women back up the guy if she mentally broke him down over years so he set her on fire in her sleep.......NO YOU WOULD SAY HE IS SICK, so wheres the difference

Answer 6

Verbal assault, I leave you.  

Physical assault?  You won't be wakin up in the mornin.  

There is NEVER an excuse to assault anyone when you can walk away first.

Man or woman, killing is acceptable when a person who is twice your strength and size wants to beat on you.  If more women offed these abusers, we certainly would have less of them.

Answer 7

Killing can be justified, but there is a difference between "killing" and "murder".  What a soldier does on the battlefield or what one does in self-defense is killing where as killing someone in cold blood (or premeditated or for selfish reasons) is murder.

An abused person killing their abusive spouse is.... difficult to assess.  It can be done in part self-defense, part extreme mental and emotional break-down from extensive abuse.  However, the problem with this is that when one kills a spouse they suddenly became "abused".  Yes, there are some women (and even men) that are so abused that killing their spouse (while not right) is not murder.  However, I think these cases are far and few inbetween.

As for the case you're talking about of the Indian woman who set her husband on fire-- it WAS proved that she suffered extensive, horrific abuse.  She was stuck in the UK and couldn't leave her husband or even get help from the UK police (she didn't speak English well and didn't understand the laws).  Supposedly the night she killed him he had nearly killed her and essentially she was backed against a wall.

Its a terrible situation, but this is one of the few times I would side with the abused and say, while not right, what she did to him was not murder (and I would say the same if the abused had been a man and the abuser a woman).

EDIT--I think you should have chosen a different source for your source.  Kiranjit Ahluwalia is the woman, and she suffered 10 years of physical, mental, and sexual abuse.  She tried to run away several times but her family wouldn't help her (it would go against their religion) and she was caught by her husband each time.  On the night she burned him, he had allegedly attempted to break her ankles (to stop her from running) and burn her face with a hot iron.  Her two sons were continual witnesses to her abuse.

So no, its just not as cut and clean as you're making it.

Answer 8

In answer to the first part of your question: As the asker, you put information out there and if someone asks you to cuite your source, what's the problem? Surely you got the information from somewhere and providing a link is easy, there's even a space for it below. It's just good manners to cite a source when asked, even if the other person does not do so first! The way you have 'cited your source', by referring to a news story is also not actually what is meant ~ providing a link (as below) is what she was requesting. This allows people to read the first hand information themselves.

Regarding the second part of your question, what's your issue? If the woman did plan and carry out a cold blooded murder, evidence would have been forthcoming and the police would charge her. The fact that they did not suggests there is more to the story than you are telling here or than you know. That is where a link is handy, because we can read it and make up our own mind.

For example, I can tell you that at the moment in Australia there is a controversy that a man has stabbed his friend's wife in the eye with a broken beer glass. What a terrible man, you might say. But there is a lot more to the story and it is coming out over a period of time. The link below will show the other information a short paragraph cannot.

Regarding the third part of your question, there is no doubt there are instances where killing is justified even though 'self defence' is not in question. In such cases the law must prove 'murder', which is quite a different thing. Interestingly, Wikipedia has quite a good discussion of this, which I've put a link for below.

However, your clear intention is to question whether spousal homicide is an acceptable answer to domestic violence or abuse.

The short answer is, violence is never a GOOD solution, but as the Law itself allows, there are circumstances in which killing is justified to the extent that the perpetrator is shown mercy or is exonerated, for both men and women.

Cheers :-)

Answer 9

Each case is unique and needs to be treated as such.

"She didn't quit him, nor filed a complaint to police. " is proof of nothing except perhaps the fact that she was deathly afraid of this man.  

I think you are being hysterical and this individual most probably did not "JUSTIFY KILLING MEN BY THEIR SPOUSES".

*As Fereshte suggests, there is always much more to these cases than you guys want to let on, and that explains why you failed to provide a link to the actual story.

Answer 10

Unfortunately, In our society women can easily use "fear" and/or "emotional problem" as an excuse to kill their husband and get away with it.

Answer 11

Killing is murder unless I do it for revenge.  Then it's justified and therefore, okay.

Answer 12

Funny, for all the women defending the woman setting her husband on fire, i doubt that any of them would have sympathy for me if i did the exact same thing to my spouse, no matter how much she abused me.

It makes me sick that cases like this, and the Mary Winkler, Lorena Bobbit, and other cases just get tossed. Mary Winkler simply claimed abuse to get off on it, she was involved in a bad cheque scam, and killed her husband to prevent him from finding out.

Lorena Bobbit severed her husbands p***s, no jail time, not even probation....

Anne C: Your bloodlust disgusts me, by your logic, i should be allowed to kill the woman who slaps me in the face in a fit of anger.

Hey, she physically assaulted me, that makes her fair game for me? Right? Right?

Fereshte makes a good point though, self defense killings i support. I dont wish to come off as a sympathizer for abusers, i'll be the first guy to put an abuser in the hospital, they disgust me. But honestly, they still prosecute the murder of serial killers, why do abusers suddenly have no rights? Revenge is no justification for murder, so, in my mind, anything but an actual self defense killing, as in, he is in the middle of a violent attack and she knifes him or something, is murder.

But really, setting a guy on fire to have him die slowly over six days? This woman should be doing life without parole, yet she walks free.

I hope i'm not the next man she decides she doesn't like.

Edit: To be fair, Thing550 does have a point, alot of these stories have more to then than what we hear.

However, i can safely say that the cases i have cited, i have thoroughly researched and can come to the conclusion that both of them were not abused, or at least, there was absolutely no evidence, and even in Winkler's case, she had a motive.

Answer 13

Fact: Women who kill thier spouses are most likely to get away from it. I LOVE to watch court TV and i've seen plenty of these cases.

Answer 14

Killing is justified ONLY IN SELF-DEFENSE, period. What that woman did was understandable, but nonetheless, wrong. She should be charged with murder although the fact that he abused her should be taken into account. (Watch the movie "Provoked"). If she had set him on fire while he was beating her up, she would've been justified. (Although killing still should be a last resort - I believe a sharp blow to the head to knock the person unconscious and then informing authorities is the way to go).

Answer 15

She should of got the death sentence she is a cold hearted killer.

   With violence committed by women spiking throughout western civilization us guys have a reason to be fear full.

      It is funny how feminist link verbal arguments or emotional neglect(the guy is stuck working 80+ hours a week to support her) as justification for murder.

      The only way it could be self defense is if she is defending herself as she is being attacked.

Any other violent course of action after the fact falls under revenge.

      

      It is just an example of what feminist's have in store for men.

    We can either foolishly believe them when they say " I don't hate guy's, or we just want equality", or recognize them for what they are.

A hate movement akin to the kkk, black panthers, n**i's, neo-n**i's,al-qaeda.

     There using the same justifications that there ideological mothers used in the wkkk(women's klu klux clan) to justify the lynching of black men(congressional hearings showed that it was the wkkk that instigated kkk violence in the early part of the 20th century).

      If we don't face them and make everyone as aware of there hate full past, present and future goals then the future becomes a very dangerous place.

        

Answer 16

   she was sleeping with the judge.we must correct an important word here.miss used many times.she did not kill her husband.there is a distinct difference in killing and murder.you must not inter change them.murderers should be put to death.if you are responsible for killing some one by accident.you must make ammends to the family.in the way of financil settlement.lawyers have screwed this up for years.to the point of making a joke of it.if a murderer gets off by some stupid technicality the lawyer has found.and he murders again.the lawyer should be put to death with him.now that is justice.

Answer 17

No killing is Justified. We are judged during the judgment Day.

In self defense murder is by chance not intention. Planned killing can't be justified as it will end like 'Mahabharat' or 'Karbala' and can continue till everything is eliminated. This is the result of 'Negative' energy.

A unstable mind is set  free (seven murders! ) by our courts.

LOVE is sharing and can turn fire into water. It can win enemy, but depends on Diplomatic counseling and intelligence. So the best help for a Woman is education (not the present system). Kabir said studying scripture does not make one Educated, but knowing the Right way to Love by analyzing is to be Intellectual. Real education is to know how to Live in this society and not 'Kill & get killed'.

So a Saint said 'Every woman could be a Mother, but a Real mother is rare'.

Answer 18

If you read about "Battered Wife Syndrome", you'll see that it involves women who have been abused for a long period of time, and find that the only way out of this situation, is to kill her partner.

The reason that this has been used as a defence in court, is for the women who have endured extreme abuse, and have gone to prison for murder, since it usually involves killing the partner in a pre-meditated way. Pre-meditated murder always carries heavy penalties, and the discovery that some women resort to this, was recognised as a phenomenon that required further study.

Being able to draw on this defence is very difficult, and just saying "he abused me for years" is not enough. A great volume of evidence is required for this defence.

Answer 19

this question has and is being argued by the best legal minds in our country. the bottom line at this point = there is no answer. any killer having an "out" is going to take it. and since this seems personal between you and valerie we'll let you settle it.

TIME OUT!!  if mom shoots pop in the head while he's asleep and their's no recorded history of abuse Why should we believe her after pop's no longer around to defend himself? the variables in the killings change but the question remains the same. was there abuse,did she have justification, did she have other options or did she invent the whole abuse thing to collect the insurance so she could run off with Jose the pool boy? what's the acid test?

Answer 20

Let's look at it this way. Would someone who was kidnapped, held prisoner and terrorized by their captor be guilty of murder if they felt that the only way they could safely get away was to kill their captor first? No. So how is it different? Some spouses are so abused and made to believe that they, themselves will DIE if they try to leave, that they begin to think that the only way they will live is if their abuser is dead. This does happen, and each case must be judged on an individual basis.

And violence is not, and has not "spiked" among women.

http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/2008/07...

Answer 21

The woman CLAIMED he abused here?  And there's not one bit of evidence to support it?  I'm glad I live in the US where we will charge murderers the way they should be charged no matter what the gender...oh wait *thinks about cases like Mary Winkler and others he's heard over the years like it*...never mind...we're all screwed as men if our wives just cry abuse.

It's justified to prevent a beating.  I don't really think it is immediately afterwards.  If it is, then a man should be able to kill his wife who just punched him in the face, right?  Right?

Heh, guess not.  God forbid any of you actually want real, true equality, just what you define as "equality."

Answer 22

it many times is the truth that ladies fed up of abuse do try and kill their spouses but it is not al all always so or justified...the amount of women suicide bombers is increasing daily.. and that is seen in iraq and this shooted outwith one of the suicide bomber gave herself to police and provided information about a 13 yr old planing to do the same...well crime rate must not be checked by male or female the mind is human mind...

Answer 23

I think the whole idea of whether murder is justified when the woman has been abused is a gray area.   In other words it depends on the specific situation.  Some of these women kill their husbands because they are literally held hostage.  Not able to leave their houses, not able to get any other form of help, forced to be subjected to repeated physical, emotional and sexual abuse.  I think I could safely say I might kill somebody in a situation like that.  Then you hear of other cases.  Where the woman was abused but she killed her husband one day while he was napping in his chair.   I can't say that would necessarily be justified in my mind.   For your specific example I would say no, in my mind that wouldn't be justified as she probably could have gone and found another way out.