Anti-feminists, what are your suggestions for making reproductive rights more equal?

Question

Crouching Doggie - I gather from your answer that you are happy with reproductive rights as they are, as medical and scientific experts are indeed responsible for advising the government on such matters :-)

Answer 1

Idk Sam, it's difficult, there are situations where a child is aborted against the fathers wishes, perhaps when a child is carried full term without the father's consent he should be allowed to choose to be involved or not.  To be given any sort of status would be something.

Children being used a weapons is something that needs attention, it should be criminalized IMO.

Fathers are not valued and that much is clear.

"It cannot be assumed that men are bound to be an asset to family life, or that the presence of fathers in families is necessarily a means to social harmony and cohesion."

Harriet Harman 1990.

We see this attitude all over these boards, this sneering question I'm answering is a good example.

I'm going to quote you here, "So far no-one is giving me any decent suggestions > I am getting the impression that you like to complain but don't actually have any 'solutions'."

Ok, feminism has worked at destroying the family and reducing the father to an expendable asset.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...

What are feminism's solutions to this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/73318...

Well?

Sam, I said that its difficult, it was only a suggestion, you have been conditioned to believe that the female deserves all the cards and the father is an expendable asset and the laws reflect that, medical science has given you a safe get out of jail free card too. Is this belief that the female should have all the rights and choices while the male has none correct, or is it unequal and totalitarian, equality should be a two way street IMO, this is where the antis, equalists and humanists differ from the feminists. You guys treat the very idea of raising our status with contempt.

What choices or options are men given, we are in a bind with this?

"on the one hand you are saying that fathers are not valued and on the other you are saying they should be able to walk away from their kids. How can fathers be valued when they have so little sense of responsibility?"

You know what? forget it, you lot are as bad as the pro-life people, you only accept one side so there is no point even talking to you about it, men don't like being put in a bind with reproduction any more than women do. Doesn't really affect me any more anyway becaues there are funner places to finish and I tend to go with those.

"Men should be able to walk away from pregnancies. Women can't"

This is just an out and out lie Sam, she can abort.

Why do you think we invented low cost airlines? Don't for a second think you can blame me for the reminants of catholic influence here. Just another dogmatic ism we can do with out, isn't it?

What is your position then, if its not all take and no give?

As you say, it's difficult. Perhaps some kind of 'financial abortion' that incurs a fee so men don't abuse it. Perhaps making it less attractive for single women to have children (e.g. no more free council houses). I do feel only mature people should be able to have children, but there's no way to really legislate for this.

Ok agreed, "incures a fee", in case men abuse it, I think stopping women abusing the existing laws would be a better place to start. Haven't you just done a uturn on financial abortions.

How about Dublin?  ; )

Like I said back when we would email each other on a regular basis,  you will find that we agree on most things.

Answer 2

Here's my suggestions with respect to "making reproductive rights more equal:"

Appoint a human being who has performed TOPs, tubal ligations, C-sections, innumerable vaginal deliveries, performed countless laparoscopic gynecologic procedures including, but not limited to myomectomies, surgical treatment of a tubal ectopic on a woman with haemoperitoneum and haemodynamic instability, post-partum bilateral emergent hypogastric a. embolisation, etc. to a position where legislation can be made and leave such legislation in the hands of those who devote their lives to the diagnosis and treatment of disease, rather than an 14 year-old girl who's never interrogated the foetal heart on 2D endovag. ultrasonography and can only "theorize" about just what a foetus or embryo or yolk sac is (using some absurd non-scientific c**p).  

This person should have experience in watching a human being exsanguinate and die invariably due to hypovolaemic shock and be unable to do a blessed thing about it because of uterine atony and then go home and try to forget about this horror that we see every d**n day.  

People have a right to habeus corpus, but only those with expertise in human pathophysiology could possibly determine what's the best thing for a woman or man who's suffering or needs medical attention.  Philosophy and absurd rhetoric simply go out the window when we talk about real world issues.

The people who make decisions about reproductive "rights" or "equality of rights" should have some authority in the field of clinical human medicine.  Without expertise in human physiology or pathophysiology, I really don't feel that a layman can be in a position to advance policy.

It may not be the answer you seek, but it's true.

**********

ADDENDUM TO REPORT:  If my suggestion doesn't meet your "burden" of an adequate suggestion, please consider this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOZACGVr3...

Answer 3

The women should decide to have the child or not, and the man should decide weather to be a father of not.

Answer 4

Are you wishing for a response suggesting that people be made androgynous, or just trollin'?

Answer 5

You can't because equal rights aren't same rights.

Equal rights imply that in no circumstance can you be disenfranchised by rights applicable to you like DV

Same rights imply that you just cannot be discriminated on rights at all even if you lack fundamental qualities (a uterus) that make these rights applicable. Not many rational people advocate for this.

There is a difference, I'm about equal rights so thats rights in ALL applicable areas.

p.s. so what I'm saying is it isn't disenfranchising men by not giving them the same reproductive rights as women since you can't disenfranchise someone from something that doesn't really apply to them.

edit: do we have to make them more "equal". Maybe if we lessened reproductive rights for women? I mean abortion for a start can be regulated. Cost-benefit analysis has provided no reason why it should be unrestrictively legal and preventing legislators getting involved just stokes the fire because it implies the issue is black and white.

Its not, there are shades of grey  and a middle ground that most reasonable people are willing to accept. Legislation needs to define those shades of grey. That's my solution

@ lyanthya.. "I guess they want women to take responsibility for men's behaviour."

Then why don't women start taking responsibility for their own choices. They don't want to get pregnant, don't have s*x. jeez... 1% of you get raped or its incest but honestly the other 99%..  most of you just want to have abortion to correct YOUR mistakes. So don't throw stones when you're in a glass house

edit: well if the option is between changing it from what it is now I say lessen reproductive rights such as abortion, if that isn't an option like you say then keep it the way it is.

There certainly isn't much point giving men any more than their dominion over their sperm. It would be totally ineffectual and pointless

Answer 6

It can't be equal. It isn't suppose to be equal. Feminist have tried to make it equal by making aboriton legal.

"Although this is often men's fault - refusing to wear condoms, for example - I know that accidents can happen."

Both people are irresponsible.Instead of following their instincts like a bunch of wild pack animals, they could show some self restrain and sublime their desires.

Answer 7

if men don't want to pay for the child, they shouldn't have to

your body, your choice. YOUR RESPONSIBILITY FOR BIRTH CONTROL

if you don't want to get pregnant, don't drop your knickers so easily.

i wouldn't if it could happen to me.

SAM: mine is a sensible suggestion.

SAM: without artificially grafting ovaries & vaginas onto men we can't make rights the same. This would, at least, give women the "right" to murder a man's baby without his consent, whilst giving the man the right to walk away. Far more fair than it is now.

Answer 8

Not an Anti feminist....but some of them do have some valid points.

Fathers arnt valued nearly as much as they should be, while no father is better then a bad one...an ok father is certainly a lot better then none.  Especially in lower income family's, where the social and economical support is needed the most.  The laws are set for things to be equal, this a social standard thats been created (fairly recently historically)  In someways, men do bring it upon themselves.  You get guys who, dont care about the child/ren throw a fit (you got some of them here) about helping to pay/watch/support it....and this screws things up for the men who desperately do care.  

There is a solution to the....she doesn't want to birth the fetus he does....issue.  They have been doing womb to womb fetus transfers for equines for several years now.  recently read an artical about them working on it in humans.....so while some gov funded program might have to be put together to help fathers that want to do this as it's $$$  this would give men the right to "rent a womb" and have his child, without turning the mother into a slave or forcing her to carry the child.  Course legally the bio and surrogated mothers would have to have no rights to the child, only just.

I can understand what they are saying about the whole "opt out" I honestly feel given the social situation fathers find themselves this would only hurt men....ok it would help the guys who gave fathers a bad name to start with.  Instead...I think a mandatory DNA test, done at birth.  Make it mandatory so no one has to get all upset and ticked off if the husband or BF wants one....plus it might help with the issue of baby swaps at the hospital(which happens more then we would like to think)

Plus the right to check on her financing and where the money/child support is being spent seems only fair.  I dont think a lot of the guys paying child support really understand how expensive kids are...and there are certainly cases where the money isnt being spent on the kid.  This would help with both situations.

Answer 9

I agree that fathers should have similar rights to women. Financial abortion is a tough one, though. Children should never have to go without just because their fathers feel that that $200.00 a month is more important. Men can also walk away fairly easily from a pregnancy...whereas women have to make some tough decisions if they feel they cannot handle a child. Abortion can be a tough moral battle, while adoption is just as a difficult. Either way, that attachment a woman feels for her child is going to create a struggle all the way. Men don't seem to have that. I mean, of course fathers love their children...but men have been taught that it's normal to leave them. You don't have to feel guilty. So, as soon as we give men the right to financial abortion, they'll be completely hands off. The world will be raised by single mothers. I doubt anti-feminists want that.

The problem is obviously that women and men are not the same reproductively, so the reproductive choices are different. Men can must choose whether they want a child or not during the sexual act and women can choose whether they want a child or not after the sexual act. It sucks, but if we were to take away the right to abortion, women would lose their right to control their bodies. So...until a man grows a uterus...I doubt this will change.

I do think that men and women should start lobbying for better birth control for men. I mean, basically everything is on the woman. She makes all of the reproductive decisions and she has all of the responsibility. If men had more options than condoms, maybe they would feel a little more in control?

Answer 10

You know, you're right.  They complain about it all the time, but they have no suggestions other than "We shouldn't have to pay for our children, and women shouldn't be allowed to abort our children!"

Ironic, isn't it?

I guess they want women to take responsibility for men's behaviour.

Answer 11

i dont get the question. if you want to have a kid have one, if you dont than dont?

Answer 12

Women can use abortion to opt out of parenthood, so it really is only fair that men should be able to opt out also and have the option of whether or not to pay child support.

""Although this is often men's fault - refusing to wear condoms, for example"""

Women should learn how to keep their legs together than..

Answer 13

can you elaborate on 'reproductive rights' please?

in terms of male and female reproduction, equality is relative - neither male or female are equal, nor is one of higher status than the other

differences create an individual, not hemogonous relationships