Anyone else have trouble with the spirtiual side of Martial Arts?

Question

I don't believe in 'spirits' 'heavens' 'ghosts' and people who are passed on 'watching over us'. Therefor I find it sort of hard practising or putting 1 second of time into showing 'respect' or 'meditation' to peoples or places that are dead or not around. I actually find it frustrating. I always get angry when we waste 15 minutes of class meditating, when we could be working out and practising technique.

Anyone else feel the same way? If I wanted to show some person respect, I will send him an e-mail, or shake his hand in person and give them kind words. I don't understand how I am actually 'showing respect' to a person when they aren't even around. Having a portrait on the dojo wall, and studying the history of the art is good enough in my opinion.

What do you people think?

Answer 1

Well, I'm not sure about meditating for 15 minutes during a class. But, if you're practicing 'traditional' martial arts, you should show respect for the traditions and the people who came before you who brought the martial art about and the martial art, studio and instructor...

There are other types of martial arts out there where there are no traditions involved - just getting on the mat and sweating through your workout - but, as I have seen, there is not a lot of respect that happens in that type of environment - when there's no respect, people get injured and work outs are not productive.

Answer 2

Someone has confused the purpose of meditation in your dojo.

yasatsune itosu called ankoh  said "karate does not stem from or in any way part of buhdism or confucianism"

Who was ITOSU ?The master who at one time or another taught all the original founders of the 5 major branches of TMA.

Meditation is a personal thing and should be done in a quiet solitary setting .It helps in control of breathing focus the mind and rid the spirit of nagging doubts.It has no place in the dojo except as a mental review of the lessons just learnt or you are being taught by a ZEN master and you know ZEN is part of thier teaching before hand.

Because of the concentration and mental focus required for serious study of martial arts it has been described as "moving zen or zen in motion"that should be enough for any one.

Answer 3

There is a huge benefit to the Meditation it enhances focus and actually improves technique.  

Be patient and if you are going to learn an art live it do not treat it with this dis respect.

Answer 4

I agree with you.  Many traditional Asian arts contain quasi-religious or mystical elements, and many atheists, agnostics, as well as Christians and other people of faith feel uncomfortable with these parts.  If it really bothers you, you might consider switching to a new school or style.

Regardless of your personal beliefs, spending 15 minutes of instructional time meditating is a waste of your money.  If your teacher really feels that meditation is necessary, he should show his students how to do it, then recommend they do it outside of class.

Answer 5

What are you trying to accomplish with the meditation? Think about that for a while. Why do a lot of the Asian arts include meditation? Just one example of this is ... Self control...

Back in the day, Just like today, killing someone or facing a horrible battle tends to shake the nerves a little. How do you live with yourself knowing that you must do terrible things to survive?

Meditation. How do you know that you will not hesitate at the moment of truth? Meditation. Since many of the arts have changed from purely war to self improvement then the aspects of the meditation have also changed. Instead of trying to steady our nerves for an upcoming battle, we can steady our nerves for the upcoming school test or business meeting. Many of the meditation techniques that were once geared just for war are now good not only for the mind, but for the body as well. Have a little patience and learn how to use the meditation before you write it off as some crazy mumbo jumbo.

Good Luck

Answer 6

When you are doing a traditional art, you are entering a traditional culture. Example, if you wear your shoes into a Japanese house then, you are not respecting their culture, host and their ways. It would be consider very rude. It is like when someone introduce you to his friends and you don't bother to shake their hands.

In a traditional martial art school, you show respect by bowing to the master if he is there, otherwise you bow to the picture. Sometimes, you bow to the picture of your grand master or the founder of the art who may be already dead. Then, you solute everyone else. Think of it as a way of saying hello in the traditional eastern culture. Not learning or not following the ways of your club of showing respect, means that you are disrespecting your master and therefore not respecting yourself. Would you pass knowledges to a student who disrespect you? i don't think so. Respects must come from inside, your heart and mind, and then transfered to gestures of your body.

I bow down and solute my Sifu/master anywhere i see him, even in a restaurant, cinema, street, shops...etc. It may look a bit strange to other people close by, but, my Sifu/master is who he is, and i show him my respect no matter where i see him, regardless of what people around me think. You have to get rid of your pride or fear and do what you want to do. It felt a bit embarrassing the first time i did it, but after a few times I got use to it.  Respect must come from your heart.

In a modern, non traditional martial art club, it will be different gestures. But still you enter the club and start greeting your instructors with "hi Jim! How are you?." and then say hello to every one in your class. Different gestures, same respects.

Depending on the style of martial arts, some put more emphasis in meditation to clear the mind, or to work on the flow of their chi. Unfortunately, if you can't see the benefits, then, it can work against you because you will get frustrated, and the angers builds up. Best to talk to your instructor and ask about the benefits of that form of meditation.

Once thing is for sure, you can not train something you don't believe it. Try to open your mind to new things. Otherwise you are just wasting your time.

Sometimes we can not make a judgment because we lack in knowledges. But there is some thing that we understand, that is result. If You master is a great fighter, you should give it a go and follow his methods. Remember who is the teacher and who is the student. Your job is to learn and practice, and ask questions that you don't understand.

Answer 7

I don't have a problem with the "spiritual" side... I just don't do it.

I don't "bow" to a shomen nor do I entertain the whole "ancestor" stuff.

I don't do the meditation or any of that.

I teach people how to survive and make it home to their loved ones.

Answer 8

I have to agree with you in part.

1) I don't feel that class time should be spent doing meditation of any form.

2) I understand what you are saying about respect to the old masters. To me I am just thankful that they were gracious enough to teach what they know. If not the styles would have died out by now.  I think the student should know the roots of the style and lineage. But I think that it is crossing the line to interject anything that resembles religion either eastern or western.  Classes should not be advocating political or religious ideas in class.  Those that wish to follow those paths can do so on their own.  

And for those that might wonder, I'm a Christian. I don't think that I should try to shove my views on anyone that does not want them.

Answer 9

well if you are spendin 15 minutes of the class meditateing i would be very angry aswell. maybe try find another class which doesnt go into the spirtual side.

Answer 10

I've discovered something remarkable about martial arts.  The more rough and tumble it is, the less weird stuff you encounter.  I don't picture Tank and Kimbo sitting in front of a rock garden in the lotus position going "OHM - OHM!" prior to their fight.

I like martial arts, but I don't get into any of that hocus pocus jive.