Anypone heard of the mysterious archaeological ruins of the Grand Canyon?

Question

http://www.crystalinks.com/gc_egyptconnection.html

Answer 1

An Indian Legend

In connection with this story, it is notable that among the Hopi Indians the tradition is told that their ancestors once lived in an underworld in the Grand Canyon till dissension arose between the good and the bad, the people of one heart and the people of two hearts. Machetto, who was their chief, counseled them to leave the underworld, but there was no way out. The chief then caused a tree to grow up and pierce the roof of the underworld, and then the people of one heart climbed out. They tarried by Paisisvai (Red River), which is the Colorado, and grew grain and corn.

They sent out a message to the Temple of the Sun, asking the blessing of peace, good will and rain for people of one heart. That messenger never returned, but today at the Hopi villages at sundown can be seen the old men of the tribe out on the housetops gazing toward the sun, looking for the messenger. When he returns, their lands and ancient dwelling place will be restored to them. That is the tradition.

Among the engravings of animals in the cave is seen the image of a heart over the spot where it is located. The legend was learned by W.E. Rollins, the artist, during a year spent with the Hopi Indians.

There are two theories of the origin of the Egyptians. One is that they came from Asia; another that the racial cradle was in the upper Nile region. Heeren, an Egyptologist, believed in the Indian origin of the Egyptians. The discoveries in the Grand Canyon may throw further light on human evolution and prehistoric ages.

Answer 2

I am chipping in so as to do for the Celts what Sascoaz has done for Kinkaid. In 800BCE the Celts were only found in a limited area around southern Germany. The major Celtic expansion to much of northern Europe and down the Danube was after 600BCE.

The phrase "Celtic heiroglyphics" is nonsense, unless you are using the word "heiroglyphics" to refer to an inscription in Etruscan.

I do find credible, though not proven, the hypothesis that there was trade between the Old and New Worlds before the 1st millennium BCE. I would suggest that any "Celtic" words in pre-modern Native American languages in the US West are words that share a common origin with their Celtic comparators rather than being derived from them, and that researches could look for possible Sanskrit roots.

Answer 3

Never heard of it before, Eqyptians lived in grand canyon bit far fetched!

Answer 4

I have not, but do know some people in the National Park Service, and there are areas with ruins in National Parks that are not made public to conserve the site. So I would not doubt it at all.

Answer 5

There is no connection between Egypt and the Grand Canyon.  The remains discussed are probably simply the ancestors of the modern Native Americans in the area.  It is important to keep in mind that throughout the 19th century there was a major attempt to discredit any of the magnificent and large sites found in the US as having any connection to Native Americans.  The large mound complexes of the Mississippians, the geometric earthworks of the Hopewell and many other "advanced" sites were attributed to just about anyone except "those savage indians" who were often seen as the barbarians that wiped out the moundbuilders.  Scientific exploration from the late 19th Century on has shown these theories to be wrong and have demonstrated that all the sites in America that predate the 16th century (with the exception of a few 11th century Viking sites along the Atlantic Coast) are attributable to Native Americans.

Looking back, it appears that one of the main reasons for this effort to disconnect the Native Americans from "civilized" sites was the American Dream of Manifest Destiny - that white Americans had the destiny to "civilize" the continent from coast to coast - this meant they had to displace the native inhabitants.  It would be harder to do this if they had to be seen as more than savages - as a people that had great civilizations of their own, and a strong claim to a long ancestry of the continent.

Answer 6

Yep... this is a pretty well known story around the Grand Canyon and has been mentioned by a number of historians, the most recent being Todd Berger in his book "It Happened at Grand Canyon".  There are many factual, historical and geographical problems with the account and it is not considered a credible story by any serious Grand Canyon historians.  I kinda wondered if this question was coming, after seeing the one on 'off limits' areas of the canyon.  :)

Even aside from the whole idea of Egyptians building a giant temple in the Grand Canyon (while leaving no other trace of the presence in the area), just the claim of Kinkaid running the river in 1909 and being only the second person to have done so is verifiably false.  Quite a few other people had run the river by then (Favell, Stone, Galloway) and a supposed Smithsonian expeditioner would have known that.  More over, running the river was still rare enough then to be big news and such a river expedition (which would have required substantial supplies and preparation) would have made national news even before finding any ruins, yet there is no mention of any expedition even being planned (in fact, nobody named Kinkaid even worked for the Smithsonian at that time).

Thousands of people go down the Colorado River each year and there are many avid canyon hikers and river runners who have thoroughly explored all the areas near the river along the main gorge (where the article says the ruins are located) and none of them have come across the ruins or even any other Egyptian artifacts or evidence which you would expect would be scattered over a wide surrounding area.  And this does not count the hundreds of trappers and prospectors who explored the canyon in the 1800s.

Even it was in some remote side canyon, for such a ruin to be kept a known, yet protected, secret for nearly a hundred years would require the cooperation and silence of numerous different park superintendents over the years, the backcountry rangers, and the various archaeologists and geologists who have done extensive backcountry studies over the years - not counting the extreme hikers and canyon 'peak baggers' who seek out remote mesas and spires.  You would think at least one of them would spill the beans.  Note that while the park service discourages people from going in the canyon's caves because of safety and the bat colonies, I don't know of any that are actually barred or gated - and most (certainly the ones near the river) have had dozens of people in them over the years.

Additionally, the article implies that work was already getting started on setting up a major exavation and Kinkaid does not appear to keeping it a secret in the article, so you would think at least one Grand Canyon pioneer or mule packer would remember it (or even just remember him), not to mention all the other newspapers closer to the canyon (like Flagstaff and Prescott) or the paper at Yuma (where Kinkaid claims to have came off the river), but no.

The most likely scenario, is that somebody was playing a joke on the newspaper and feeding them a story.  Remember, in those days it was much harder to verify information from distant locations and newspapers rarely attempted to do so, nor did they consistently print corrections or retractions for errors in news items not tied to the local community.  There was one famous incident in Arizona in the late 1800s were a number of southwest newspapers printed stories that the entire population of a small mining camp named Galeyville had been completely wiped out in an indian raid - the articles had gruesome details and everything - in fact, the town had not even been attacked.  

The moral of the story is, don't believe everything you read in hundred year old newspapers (or on the web too for that matter) if it can not be verified by any other sources.

Answer 7

I had not heard about this before - I am glad I saw your question because it is a subject of much interest to me and my fiance.

We have been reading about early Celtic exploration in North America as early as 800 BC.  I believe there was some mention of Egyptians and Romans being here, too.

Few artifacts from that era are found, and most that are found are misinterpreted.  Most of the evidence that still exists is in the Celtic words found in various Indian languages and Celtic heiroglyphic symbols mixed into the Indian cave paintings.

If you are interested in this, check out these two books by Barry Fell - "AMERICA BC" and "BRONZE AGE AMERICA".  He has one more book in the same series that I have not gotten yet called "SAGA AMERICA"

You will find references to Egyptians in North America in those books, though they mostly concentrate on the early Celts.

If you have any more info on this, PLEASE e-mail it to me.  I am VERY interested!