Are Hybrid cars the best choice?

Question

Hybrid car drivers- It’s good that individuals want to take up a cause and help the environment, but the sad truth is that they really don’t reduce pollution; they just change the location in which the pollution is delivered. The added steps to create a hybrid car, including the mining for nickel batteries requires massive amounts of energy to produce such. This energy comes from power plants that emit carbon dioxide. This is what I mean by changing the location of the pollution. However an opportunistic market has flooded our thoughts and enabled us to bury our guilt by spending thousands and thousands of dollars on “energy efficient this, and energy efficient that.” These companies capitalize on your altruistic desires and this enables you to feel good about yourself. It’s a win-win situation for both parties.

If you agree or disagree please let me know, I only ask that you don’t back your words with links to “dot-com” websites. Anyone can write anything on such a website.

Answer 1

I'm not sure if its Toyota, but one of the Japanese car makers produces the hybrid Prius and the Land Cruiser.  The Prius gets about 55 miles per gallon of gas... the Land Cruiser only gets about 15 miles per gallon of gas.  I guess if we must drive, driving a hybrid... or any car with a high mpg ratio is good.  

The United States is only 5% of the world's population, but we emit about 20% of the world's pollution and greenhouse gases.  Its our reliance on automobiles & factories that contribute the most to our output.  Anytime we can rely on alternative transporation, its a good thing.

Answer 2

well ya... it helps the earth and u!!! lol well i dont drive yet but that is what when i grow up! and i think they are really good cars!

Answer 3

Public mass transit might be the best choice if we have to get there and can use it. But moving close enough to walk to work would be even better.

Well, where feasible, a bike is better.

I have cut my driving distance in half and cut my fuel usage in half per km, so in effect I have cut my fuel consumption to 25% of 1990 levels, and if pushed to it I could cut my distance in half yet again. That would mean I would be down to 13% of 1990 levels, without increasing the material involved in the car. My car will not last 8 times as long, simply because it will rust away. But I am taking better care of rusting, because I can make this car last the rest of my life.

We could switch to an electric bike, but I have not the confidence I would like in its technology yet.

Answer 4

No, the World's Cleanest Car is.

"BBC News is reporting that a French company has developed a pollution-free car which runs on compressed air. India's Tata Motors has the car under production and it may be on sale in Europe and India by the end of the year.

The air car, also known as the Mini-CAT or City Cat, can be refueled in minutes from an air compressor at specially equipped gas stations and can go 200 km on a 1.5 euro fill-up -- roughly 125 miles for $3. The top speed will be almost 70 mph and the cost of the vehicle as low as $7000.

The car features a fibreglass body and a revolutionary electrical system and is completely computer-controlled. It is powered by the expansion of compressed air, using no combustion at all, and the exhaust is entirely clean and cool enough for use in the internal air conditioning system. "

Answer 5

Only if all of your driving is done in the city.  The hybrid concept is ideal for stop-and-go driving because it re-uses the energy from braking.  For highway driving they perform no better than a conventional drivetrain and can even do worse, because they are carrying the extra weight of the battery, generator and electric motor.

Answer 6

Hi,

Not every thing intended to reduce our impact on the environment is a scam perpetrated on an innocent, unknowing public. We'll use the golden child of the environmental movement, the Prius, for this example.

And not only do little old ladies driving to church own Prius and other hybrids, but engineers, mechanics, electricians, IT programmers, and professional educators. So there are some seriously well educated professionals that make up the over 1,000,000 hybrids sold by Toyota alone.

Call me biased, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

I don't expect my post to convince you to go put a deposit on a Prius or other hybrid. However, you are asking for a solid, detailed answer, so here you go. Get comfy.

We'll start with the batteries and then go into maintenance, since part of this myth is a Prius needs more maintenance than a standard vehicle (completely false). Less maintenance also means less components to make and less to throw away or rebuild.

BTW, the Prius is rated an AT-PZEV, or Advanced Technology-Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle. That means the Prius puts out no emissions during part of the time it is driving and operating. Almost every other vehicle on the road does not come close to that mark.

Speaking for the hybrid batteries, there has yet to be a person who has paid for a nickel metal hydride (NiMH) hybrid to be replaced due to defects or failure.

Hybrids also use a lead acid battery like any other vehicle. But the hybrid battery is a nickel metal hydride one and they do not break down like lead acid batteries. Also, dumping any battery, lead acid or not, is extremely illegal and people love to prosecute environmental offenders these days.

There have been NiMH replaced due to accidents or owner abuse or attempted modification (one guy drilled a s***w into his NiMH stack trying to install a big sub-woofer in the back).

Anything else you've seen or heard is a myth. Common sense says if these things were failing, it would be all over the news. The Prius have been in the US for nine, almost ten, years.

As far as the energy and materials for the NiMH batteries go:

Our federal government has tested NiMH batteries from the Prius and discovered they still maintain 90% of their capacity after 100,000 miles. Look up the testing at the DOE website.

BTW, the price for a new NiMH battery for either generation of the Prius is $2985.13, not the $5-10,000.00 that people like to throw around the internet. Call your local Toyota dealer and ask for the parts department.

And the current record is over 360,000 miles on a Prius using the original NiMH battery and hybrid system. Many Prius are used as taxis and also by the State of New York and Colorado as state municipal vehicles racking up 100,000-200,000 miles without issue on a regular basis.

Speaking for Toyota, there is an 800 number on each NiMH hybrid battery, and that number allows a person to turn in that battery for a $200.00 bounty. That's assuming a NiMH even gets out of the hands of an auto salvage company who will sell it to the top bidder. Who's going to throw something like that into a dump?

The entire battery, just like almost every bit of those vehicles, is completely recyclable.

The alkaline batteries that people use and throw out are a different type of battery than what is in vehicles like the Prius. The Hybrid Synergy Drive unit that Toyota developed is designed to keep the NiMH battery in a mid-peak charge range, trying not to top-charge it or, of course, completely discharge it.

That enables a NiMH to last fairly indefinitely. Obviously, there will be some breakdown eventually, but one of the great things about the Prius system, for example, is the NiMH battery is composed of 36 individual cells. If one cell goes bad, it can be replaced and the remainder stay. That is what's happened when Toyota has torture tested the Prius in Alaska and Death Valley.

Working with Toyota, I know about their commitments to recycling and the environment (Toyota's web site lists environmental reports dating back many years). At least 11 of Toyota's North American manufacturing plants produce zero landfill waste.

As far as the supposed "environmental impact" of the NiMH batteries in the Toyota and Lexus hybrids...

The plant in Sudbury where Toyota buys approximately 1.5% of the plant's annual nickel output can be seen using this Google maps address:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&la...

Sudbury, Ontario is called the mining capital of the world for good reason.

The Sudbury plant has been in continuous operation since the rock was blasted to make way for the Canadian Pacific Railway in 1883.

That means that nickel has been mined there for the last 125 years. The Prius has been on the road since 1998. What about all the environmental damage done for the 115 years before the Prius ever came along?

On to the maintenance of a Prius...

The cost of operation of a Prius is a little less than .11 cents per mile for each 100,000 miles of operation. I don't add in insurance, bank interest, or the cost of the vehicle itself, because all of those can vary based on each owner's situation. Add them to the .11 cents per mile amount.

A Prius will maintain 51-53 average if driven properly.

This means doubling your usual stopping distance and taking your foot off the accelerator at that double distance to shut down the ICE sooner when coming to a stop and then pressing the brake at your normal stopping distance gently to the stop.

Accelerate like there is a egg under the accelerator pedal and you're trying to roll the egg out, not make omelets. In other words, driving defensively and learning to get the most out of the hybrid drivetrain.

As far as the cost to operate a Prius over 100,000 miles:

- There is no steering belt or steering pump, the system is electronic and uses electric motors. There is no belt to wear and no pump to lose fluid out of. No additional parts to replace or maintain.

- There is no timing belt, there is a timing chain that is self-adjusting. No part to replace.

- There is no accelerator cable or cable linkage, once again, it is electronic. So there is no loss of acceleration over time from cable stretch and wear like on a standard vehicle. No additional parts to replace or maintain.

- The brake pads should never need to be replaced, they are hardly used due to the regenerative braking system. No parts to replace or maintain.

- As I said, you never touch the nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery or the hybrid system, it is self-regulating. No parts to replace or maintain.

- The gas engine is not tuned up for 100,000 miles. At even 15,000 miles per year, that's about seven years. And then...

- four spark plugs run $12.00 each, four is $48.00 (the wires aren't replaced and there are no distributors because each cylinder has a direct injection module and they are not replaced)

- coolant is $15.50 a gallon and you need two gallons, or $31.00 (if you live in an extremely hot or cold climate, you might need to change the coolant 2X in 100,000 miles so figure $62.00 there)

- air filters are $18.00 for the engine and $25.00 for the cabin and are replaced every 15,000 miles. So over 100,000 miles, we'll go high and say 7 sets of air filters at $301.00.

- at 100,000 miles, inspect the wiring, change the oil (might as well, since you're there) lube, inspect and flush the brake lines, flush the coolant if necessary. It runs about $225.00, which includes parts.

- the sealed, continuously variable transmission fluid is not changed until 90,000 miles, about $140.00

- The OEM (Original Equipment from the Manufacturer) Goodyear Integrity's are about $113.00 each, installed. The originals are low-rolling resistance, specialty tires, just like a truck or sports car. They will last about 35,000 or so. Three sets of 4 OEM tires- over 105,000 miles- will run $1356.00 installed (3 sets of 4 at $113.00 each = $1356.00).

- Oil and filter changes every 3000 miles and tire rotations every 6000 miles, just like any other vehicle. Oil changes are about $26.00 and tire rotations are about $18.00, or about $884.00 for oil changes and $306.00 for rotations over 100,000 miles

So, over 100,000 miles, for regular service, a Prius should run about $3322.00, rounded to $3400.00, or about .034 cents per mile.

All of my service and parts amounts come from a local Toyota dealership (not the corner cheapy lube), and do not figure in any kind of promotions, coupons, or discounts. I called on 4/11/08.

With gas at $3.50 a gallon, a Prius will run about $7,000 over 100,000 miles, or about .07 cents per mile (100,000 miles / 50 mpg (I get 51.7 mpg currently as an average, city and highway, auto temp w/air and stereo on) = 2000 gallons of gas X $3.50 a gallon = $7,000).

So a Prius will run about $11000 ($3400 + $7000), or .11 cents per mile, to operate over 100,000 miles.

Any vehicle you are considering should be put to this kind of scrutiny. A vehicle is a major investment and it will cost you money to run properly. Please print this info out and use it to compare any vehicles by calling your local dealership and asking the parts and service departments what is involved in maintenance over 100,000 miles.

So, there are some of the details, but the bottom line is the Prius does not pollute more than a standard vehicle, no matter what it is.

Any more details, let me know or check my other posts here in Answers.

Answer 7

I used to have a car that got better mileage than most hybrids do now.   But your bit about the added steps to create a hybrid car have been shot down too many times to count.   Does mining and manufacturing a hundred pounds of nickel produce more pollution than mining and manufacturing an extra two tons of steel?   Add in 3 times the mileage for a hybrid over a hummer and any possible difference is erased.