Are any other feminists willing to admit the wage gap is not based on discrimination?

Question

See the first answer.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AjgImI9qA4vET64qCU5rLpQjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20080711185227AAMbUm2

Answer 1

If it's not based on discrimination, then what is it based on?

Answer 2

you're quite right.

Feminists expect women to be paid the same as men, yet they are far less likely to do a science degree, far less likely to excel in whichever degree they do get and far less likely to choose private sector employment. (touchy feely jobs in the public sector are more women's thing).

It's difficult to work out what %age of the wage is gap due to discrimination. If you ask a feminist what obstacles are put in her way she doesn't seem able to come up with a single anecdotal example. Instead of pointing to unequal opportunity, she will as usual point to unequal outcome.

Feminism is fatally, logically flawed.

EDIT:

Capricorn: You are completely wrong. You may not live in the UK, but this is happening everywhere.

Look at this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7...

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Female part-time workers still earned 40% less per hour than their full-time male counterparts, Ms Harman told Today BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"Do we think she is 40% less intelligent, less committed, less hard-working, less qualified? It's not the case. It's entrenched discrimination. It's allowed to persist because it's all swept under the carpet."

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As you can see, a British cabinet minister makes no attempt to allow for the fact that PART TIME female workers may be in less well paid careers than FULL TIME male workers. She simply claims that part time women are paid less than full time men, therefore something must be wrong.

She is using this illogical argument to push through legislation making it legal to discriminate against men.

This is not equality.

Answer 3

Some of it is based on discrimination, but some of it is based on lifestyle choices.  It's a combination of both, and anyone who says it is based entirely on lifestyle choices or entirely on discrimination is a fool.  

But, even then, the "lifestyle choices" have a degree of unfairness to them.  Yes, it is often true that women take off work to deal with children, and that women often take on a larger role in childrearing.  But why is this?  The way I see it, it's because men in these households aren't doing their fair share.  If couples would equally divide things up, so that both partners take off an equal amount of of work for the children and each partner does their fair share in terms of childrearing and household chores, then women's careers wouldn't' have to fall by the wayside.  Why should women be the only ones who bear the brunt of being a parent?  Men should step it up and take on a more active role so neither partner has to sacrifice career success.  

And furthermore, there are many employers who will automatically assume that female employees will one day have children, and that they will become less devoted to their careers, and thus, these women won't be given as many opportunities as the male employees because their employers believe (falsely) that it will be wasted on them.  This is discrimination based on stereotypes and generalizations.  

So yes, the wage gap IS partially based on discrimination, though lifestyle choices play a part.

Answer 4

A: Like Claire A said: If it's not discrimination, then what the h**l is it?

B: Rebel F pretty much summed it up

C: You yourself didn't even explain why you don't think it's discrimination

D: David G: OBVIOUSLY, we are talking about wage gaps in the SAME FIELD.  No one is saying that a female barista at Starbucks should be getting the same pay as a male computer engineer.  That should be self-explanatory.

I think the wage gap is 100% discrimination.  Here's why:

1. If a woman doesn't get hired because she's a mother, the company is assuming that she'll A: need time off from work and B; She won't work as hard.  That is a load of c**p.  First of all, you're assuming that she doesn't have help (she could, you know, have a partner), and B: being a mom somehow stops you from working hard.

2. If a woman doesn't get hired because, "She might get pregnant, need maternity leave, and not do work", then you're assuming that A: Every woman wants to have children. and  B: Believe it or not, there are men that take paternity leave, though some companies are against it.

All of these things are based on assumptions about women:

-All women are baby-making machines

-Only women have familial responsibilities

-Every woman is eventually going to have a family someday

-Being a mother makes you work less hard

When does it end??

Answer 5

I was employed as a bartender while attending school. The female on the early shift claimed to be physically incapable of stocking the coolers at the end of her shift. She still received the same salary as the other bartenders. I do not think that was fair.

Answer 6

Sorry, but some of it is based upon discrimination.    Yes, some women work less hours than men.    Some women take a few years off to raise children.   However when the SAHD's and SAHM's re-enter the workforce men get more credit for doing so.  It impacts them less.  

There are many women with more education and equal, if not more experience, getting paid less in the same job.   Women do not get promoted  at the same rate as men so that  lessens pay.

Answer 7

The "wage gap" is one of feminist's biggest propaganda, they use it to fool and brain-wash people into believing that women are still being discriminated against; sadly, many are buying into their lies.

Anyone with common sense would know that if there is a "wage gap" then it have far more to do with women's life choices, length of time in the workplace, education, occupation, number of hours worked per week etc..etc.. rather than "discrimination".  

If women are truly being paid less than men for doing the exact same work, why on earth would any employer hire men? It makes no sense. Isn't the whole point of a business is to make money and not spend it? Isn't that how capitalism works?

But don't expect feminists to be able to understand this simple logic.

Answer 8

I think a lot of men have developed an unfair entitlement mentality about wages, which is based on a sexist notion of social gender-based roles.

If you think that men are entitled to more money because they have to support a family, you are buying into a sexist assignment of domestic duties.

That same assignement of domestic duties is precisely what is responsible for many women not earning the same as men --as long as  women are *assumed to be* primary caregivers and *assumed to do* the lion's share of domestic chores, women will work fewer hours and therfore earn less than men.

Answer 9

Hardly any will because they like playing the victim card.  The choice cause is well documented.  

Just because person A is not paid as much as person B doesn't mean it's discrimination.  Feminists will always blame it on that though.

Answer 10

The wage gap is based on multiple factors-but at least some of it is based on gender discrimination when women are paid less in the same field/same job/same education/same experience/same overtime hours worked/same amount of time taken off. Not all women have kids-I've met plenty of women who work 70-90 hours a week and are committed to their jobs. And these women often made less than the men around them-it took a while to find out-but we often did find out. We also noticed that women were not promoted as quickly or often-no matter how assertive they were or how hard they worked. It's better than the 1970's and 1980's-but gender discrimination is still there.

I'm sure discrimination exists for men in female dominated occupations and/or workplaces as well-there are plenty of non-feminist and anti-feminist women in the workplace. Do you also think that men never suffer work discrimination based on gender? I believe it happens to both genders and think both genders deserve their opportunities to succeed as well.

Answer 11

♀♀LSBN (aka snarky): You're the misandrist here and deserve to be kicked out of these forums, even though you don't have sexual feelings towards men that doesn't mean you have to hate them the same way the 60s/70s l***o-radical feminists did. By the way you're not a feminist you're simply a misandrist, unlike you feminists are actually decent people who seek equality not victim-hood or blame.

No, it's not predominantly discrimination it's mainly simply flexible/inconsistent work patterns of women who work part time, being payed less than men who work full time. Many of women's life factors impact work performance and hours spent at work. Just because person A and person B performs the same job, it doesn't meant that they will be equally payed - their job performance needs to be taken into account.

Of course not all women are baby producing machines, far from it. But there are averages and statistics that give you some idea of a pattern in any given population. Many women do give birth. But statistics are often misinterpreted from time to time.

Answer 12

Why does the recently hired female engineer sitting in my office make more than many men who have been there for years?

This happens everyday in my company, woman hired and paid more just to get them in. But they do not complain about that.

Answer 13

It IS about discrimination.  Snarky makes sense and nobody should be out here making personal attacks on her just because they didn't like her comments.  Play nice, kids.

Answer 14

It is not COMPLETELY based on discrimination.  Women often chose, through necessity, to have jobs that require less time commitment, because they are the primary caretakers of children.  Women may be more drawn to a job because of the benefits and scheduling flexibility.  Many also teach school so that their work day corresponds to their children's school schedules.  They may be less able to get overtime work because of childcare responsibilities..

That does not mean that there is not discrimination in hiring that should be dealt with, but I doubt that the pay gap will ever go completely away.

Answer 15

Let's see: I have an education in abundance: PHD in chemistry and another one in world history. I also have a long list of patents ( do you at least know what that is, my overly self promoting male chauvinists? )  under my belt. However to achieve a real professional success, I and everyone around me had always known I deserve, I had to leave the company I was working for at the time and establish my own. And the darnedest thing is, that I still receive glorious offers from my old bosses, because it turned out I was a pretty valuable employee they could not appreciate for their pathetic reservations. I, on the other hand, have no need to be associating myself with their problems, because my company is a great success. Now, you try to spin that one around!

Answer 16

Anyone with a bell ringing even close to their ear can see that the wage gap exists for reasons other than discrimination.

As if capitalists would conspire to give the best jobs to the most expensive employees!

Feminism's main source of power is faux victim hood and crying foul, without claims of men conspiring to beat, rape and oppress, feminism would lose its power.

feminism is dependent on victim hood.

Answer 17

People should just admit that most of it IS based on discrimination....Many women out here can do the jobs men do, we all deserve the same pay, but some of the egotistical sexist guys in the world feel insecure and invalid as men when they see women are able to do the same work...Of course, those males convince themselves (but no one else) that women are incapable.  Such men are illogical, insecure and ignorant.  (And yes, I'm glad that not all men are like this, nor do I hate men).  I am pointing out facts and answering the question.  Nothing personal.

Discrimination DOES keep many good women from getting equal employment opportunities as men, and that's a fact.  Not all women become mothers who need time off for the kids.  The ones who do should NOT be discriminated against simply because nature gave females the ability to carry babies.

Many women excel in science and math and earn degrees in every field of study!....It's just really sad how ignorant and unfair some people are at the workplace and in the military.  That's another sexist place where males go out of their way to prevent strong, intelligent women from opportunities and advancement.