Are men fighting for what the original feminists wanted?

Question

Equality. Forget the trolls and it seems that most men here are asking for equality.

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/42/15/31-a?eaf

http://www.batteredmen.com/index.htm

http://kidjacked.com/

Answer 1

I personally don't want equality since its a very loaded concept and everyone has their own brand.

Equity (fairness) gives us reasons why we value certain types of equality and thats why I advocate equal opportunties and equal fundamental legal rights

As to miss independent, you clearly have no idea WHY they get paid less.

Same work means same pay, so it's fair and equal to give two ppl the same pay for same work. This doesnt happen often

So let's say we pay one more for doing more work, that's unequal by definition but fair since the person who was more productive deserves more pay.

If you paid them the same even though one person did more work that's equal but unfair. It's communism..

I'm sure not many reasonable feminists are in favour of that. So stop looking at the inequalities and look at the inequities (unfairness) if any exists.

Inequality however is often an outcome of fairness since not everyone makes use of their equal opportunity.. so the outcomes may not be desirable for those who have short comings but if 90% of women ended up in high office as a result of equal opportunity then I would be quite happy since they achieved it fairly

edit: best form of defence is attack eh pookie..

edit: your first part is a straw man argument miss independent I never said that. It's more likely they're just not making use of the opportunities available perhaps because they have other priorities like raising a family etc. there could be institutional discrimination though and this must be targetted so they have equal opportunity since that's fair as I say

Answer 2

Equal opportunity and equal human rights.

Equity in education.

  But yes.

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I suppose Miss independent has never been to NYC or a metropolitan area before.. For the same job and same hours women tend to make 2% more then there male counterparts.

40% of married women make more than there husbands.

      The wage gap is a blatant lie created through a fuddling of the numbers and misinterpretation.

        You cannot compare the wages of a male lawyer and a female waitress or a female lawyer and a male mechanic.

    And conversly you can't compare the wages of a male worker who works 80 hours a week and a female worker who works 40 hours a week.

Men on average work more over time. When it comes time for raises and bonus's the first thing boss's look at is how reliable are you, how many hours you work, quality of work(ussually in that order).

       Heck alot of career women tend to make 15% more then there male counterparts.

But I suppose a lie said a millions times will just be repeated by a million misguided sap's....

Answer 3

Wow, I guess, this is exactly the case, indeed.  Men are being placed into such a defensive position that in the interest of self-preservation, that's essentially what's happening.  Regrettably, there is such a degree of polarization between the genders that men are forced to embrace a movement to regains fundamental human rights.  The tragedy of this will invariably be that just as there are "Radical Feminists," there will be utter misogynists who enter this movement.  I don't like movement for precisely this reason.  Radical Feminism has corrupted any possible good that mainstream Feminism could have achieved and made it into a horrific philosophy.  Now the men are invariably forced to fight for inalienable human rights.  Therein lies the blowback of modern Feminism.

Answer 4

Feminism isn't about equality, it's mostly about equal outcome and special perks.  Men's Right group must not walk on the same path and make the same mistake that the feminists movement make.

Answer 5

Yes. It has occurred to be that its ironic that people who call themselves feminists are not interested in gender equality, and men who call themselves anti-feminists are!  I say its ironic because this means that people like me are doing the job that feminists - by the dictionary definition - are supposed to be doing. (See Section 1 here http://www.freewebs.com/feminism-evaluat...

Answer 6

Equalism... an equalist is an equalist is an equalist, whether you call yourself a men's rights activist or a feminist.

We all want equality.

Answer 7

What does Child Welfare Services have to do with men's rights? Don't women get their children taken away from CPS, too? (re: your last link.)

Answer 8

No.  They are bitter because they can't assume complete control over everything as they used to do.

Answer 9

Yes. Equality.

Answer 10

I don't think the "original feminists" made videos such as the one on your last link, COACHING men by video titled "Strategies for winning over dirty social workers" about the best ways to manipulate social workers in CHILD SAFETY UNITS. Examples include -

"pretend you're going to lead your family how they (social workers (sic) want you to lead your family"

and supposed humorous still shots with the words "you mean my buddy can't kick her (social worker - sic) in the tush"

Geeez, I wonder why children are removed from so many men.

Answer 11

So are most women here. As good as it is to fight for equality, it sometimes feels like they need to blame women or feminists in every instance they don't have it.

Answer 12

Forgetting the trolls and the handful of lunatics here, I think we are all asking for the same things but we all have a different way of looking at the situation, voicing our opinion on it and deciding on a solution to the problem thus creating miscommunication, hurt feelings and general misunderstandings which in turn leads to an even bigger problem.

From my experience we all want love, respect, opportunity, freedom and choice.

Answer 13

From what i can see feminists don't want equality, they believe that they are entitled to equal out come and to have special laws and privileges.

It's like they want the monopoly on oppression and hardship, nobody else can suffer inequality, that seems to be for feminists and feminists only.

I don't see these Australian, US and UK feminists objecting to imperialism and oppression of indigenous men, women and children done in their names. White western feminists first and to h**l with eveyone else is the message I'm getting.

In answer, yes.

Answer 14

Actually it seems as though most men here do not want equality, especially when it comes to maternity/paternity laws and reproductive rights.

Answer 15

For a large part yes. Of course every group will have a few extremists but mostly we are all fighting for the same thing or at least very similar things. People are to focused on the little stuff such as who cooks dinner and gender neutral bathrooms to see the big picture. Why sweat the small stuff when their are real issues in both male and female rights that need to be addressed.

Miss Independent  if rap music objectifies women, Don't buy it that simple.