As it turns out, God doesn't love the entire world after all? John 3:16 not meant to be taken literally?

Question

So, I've been a Christian since birth and grew up in an independent "Bible believing" church. Now I started to attend this church that I really love. I've been going there for three years now.

But a couple of months ago, I was in a "community group" where we are supposed to be studying the bible, but it is actually a book that is supposed to explain the bible and help with discussion, etc. This was a book put out by my church.

So, the chapter we were on was trying to convince me that in point of fact, God does NOT love the whole word, but only those he CHOSE to save. An actual quote from the book said,

"An important question: What about John 3:16-- For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life--Well, in the Bible, 'world' does not always mean 'world' and 'all' does not always mean 'all.' It probably only means a 'part' of the world."

In other words, we have no free will in making this decision because we are too evil to actually make any good choice. So it is only when the Holy Spirit beckons your spirit that you are even capable of accepting him. And as a result of this line of thinking, the people in h**l are there not because they failed to accept God's sacrifice for their sins, but because God didn't love him and didn't sacrifice anything for them.

The reasoning here is because "logically" it doesn't make sense that if Jesus was really dying for the entire world and paying their debt, whether they accept that or not, the debt should have been paid, so there would be no h**l.

In other words, my church is Calvinist or "reformed." Were other people out there aware how prevalent this type of theology is, that Lutherans believe this too?

I was really shocked. They gave so many scripture references to back up their position that I felt backed into a corner. But I thought, Why in the world would anyone follow a God who they knew chose AGAINST someone?

Since then I've researched it. If you are interested I have found the following website that does a great job of summing up what I have found in the bible to back up what I always have believed.

http://www.bible-truth.org/election.htm

I just wanted to open this up to hear what others thought about the subject because it was so shocking to me personally.

Answer 1

In the KJV the word virgin was translated from the Hebrew texts.  The Hebrew word was almah.

Almah actually means young woman or girl.  It does not mean virgin.

If Mary wasn't a virgin........

Atheist

Answer 2

WoW! That is so wrong. God loved the WORLD!  And all the world has to do is accept that He is Lord. I would get out of that church and find another one. I don't always agree with everything my pastor says, but he has never said anything like that. If he did I would be outta there in a heartbeat!

Answer 3

You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

I believe in john Ch15 v16.

This is what I believe God chooses his own.

Hope that helps.

Answer 4

1 John 4:7-21- it talks about God's love for us.

2 Peter 3:9- God doesn't want anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

1 Tim. 4:10- He is the Savior of ALL men.

1 Tim. 2:3-4- He wants ALL men to be saved.

Do I agree with this community group of yours? Negative.

Answer 5

Jesus died to save everyone. The problem is, each individual must ACCEPT that salvation. If you refuse to accept a give, you are not able to "Open" it, so to speak.

Answer 6

Actually thats grounded in biblical scripture. The bible says that faith is a gift from God, not an accomplishment of man. (I'll look up the exact scripture in a second.)

Ephesians 2:8-9

8. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9. not by works, so that no one can boast.

That basically tells me that people have faith because God chose them to. That means they're saved because God chose them.

Answer 7

Get out of that church and find one that teaches the Word of God!

Answer 8

the bible was created and interpreted by men ,so ur interpretation is as good as anybody elses.

Answer 9

In the Last days their will be doctrines of devils that

come to seduce 1Tim 4

For they love not the truth and then believe a LIE

Jesus gives all the chance for eternity. AMEN

Answer 10

Imagine that. Another alleged interpretation of the bible to go with the hundreds of other ones. I guess yours is the rightest one huh. In my studies every religious text I have read and studied said EXACTLY THE SAME THING IN SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT WAYS.

But I guess my Doctorate in Theology doesn't matter now does it.

Answer 11

First let me say I may edit this response once I manage to read the link you gave.  Unfortunately with the internet connection I currently have some sites are not loadable from time to time (the joy of international isp’s).

Anyway with what you said about the group claiming that God/Jesus only loves the people that follow/accept him.  My first thought is to suggest backing away from them slowly, then as soon as you are out of their reach turn and run away as fast as you can.  For that teaching is not biblical and if they accept it, they are following a false teaching.

It sounds like they are teaching one of the non-supportable believes that God dictates every action that everyone makes (total sovereignty).  Anyone that teaches that is mistaken.  Because all though the bible it says we are given a choice. We can choose life or death.  Choose to accept The Lord or Reject him.  God does not dictate that choice to us.   The bible also talks about how following our own lusts/desires and not Our Lord and Savior is the cause of many of the world’s problems (for instance wars and conflicts).   For anyone that believes God is totally responsible for all our actions that we have no free will and is getting upset about me disagreeing with that philosophy.  There is no reason to be getting mad about anything I have said or will say.  Because I couldn’t say it, type it or think it without God’s approval.   (or was it really my free will choice?)

As for giving scriptural passages to back something up or “prove” anything, even the Devil gave scriptural passages when he was tempting Jesus.  However that does not mean that what he was saying about the passages was accurate.

2Corithians 11:13  Such people are false apostles, dishonest workers who are masquerading as apostles of Christ.

2Corithians 11:14  And no wonder, since Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

2Corithians 11:15  So it is not surprising if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their doom will match their deeds!

I do congratulate you on your wisdom to look for more proof and not simply accept what the people claim to be fact is actually true.

For as it also says in The Bible,

Proverbs: 14:15:

The simple believeth every word:

but the prudent man looketh well to his going. (KJV)

Or put another way.

A simple man believes every word he hears;

a clever man understands the need for proof. (New English Bible 1970)

There are many that simply follow what someone says, because the person speaking is “more knowledgeable”.   (sadly that also applies to many people that listen to what "science experts" say without question.)  Forgetting or perhaps never realizing that the Devil is more knowledgeable about the bible, it’s history, as well as how things really are in Heaven as well as in h**l than any person here on earth.  But that does not mean the devil, or his minions, will share correct information.  While they will quote directly from the bible, the context given is not accurate nor are the interpretations honest.  Though at first glance what they say might even sound reasonable. Upon examination the illusion that the devil tries to show as being truth, falls apart.

It is truly sad that more people are not willing to do as you did.  Stand up and say wait a minute, are you sure about that?  Double checking.  Then following what is truly correct even if it does mean going aginst "the group" or "everyone else".

May Our Creator watch over you and your family.

Answer 12

A little over 2000 years ago our Master had to address the subject of Scripture.

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4. THE TALK WITH NATHANIEL

"Master, could you trust me to know the truth about the Scriptures? I observe that you teach us only a portion of the sacred writings--the best as I view it--and I infer that you reject the teachings of the rabbis to the effect that the words of the law are the very words of God, having been with God in heaven even before the times of Abraham and Moses. What is the truth about the Scriptures?"

"Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom.

"These writings are the work of men, some of them holy men, others not so holy. The teachings of these books represent the views and extent of enlightenment of the times in which they had their origin. As a revelation of truth, the last are more dependable than the first. The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin, but mistake not, they do constitute the best collection of religious wisdom and spiritual truth to be found in all the world at this time.

"Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds.

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Answer 13

You have obviously let Satan corrupt your thinking !

Let go, and let God !

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Answer 14

Well... next time you're with this group simply ask them to explain how people convert to Christianity.  By their theory, only those who heard the Holy Spirit are chosen?   Something narrow minded about that logic!

Remember... Jesus demonstrates in the New Testament that he came to help the lost, sick, weak, liars, cheaters, whores, bad folks etc...

Remember... the church put him up in front of the masses and let them decide on his punishment next to a really bad guy... the bad guy got let off easier than Jesus; what did Jesus do except save, help, lead, teach and forgive.  Sounds like "narrow minded people" let the masses decide on his future.

I only support churches that support the Bible.  It contains the word of God and is all we need.  God warns us about those who add to and take away from His word.

Sounds to me like you're seeing that something isn't right as you're posting this... good for you!  Don't be fooled by wolves in sheep's clothing.