Bacterial flagella represent ID alteration of facts to fit belief rather than a stumbling block for evolution?

Question

I just stumbled across the following question while I procrastinated, 7 hours before an exam.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylc=X3oDMTB1a2x0anY5BF9TAzIxMTU1MDA0NDMEc2VjA3BlZXBfZQRzbGsDcQ--?qid=20080526174216AAEi0oO

The question takes a quote from Einstein out of context and attempts to question the scientific validity of evolution in the process. The quote was "If the facts don't fit the theory,change the facts." Ironically, one of the replies cites the bacterial flagella as proof against evolution.

Now here's my take on this and I'd be interested to hear your views (beats studying, lol). Given that bacterial flagella are very easily explained by evolutionary theory, isn't the ignorance of this on creationists' parts just a way to "alter the facts" to suit their beliefs? This question along with that reply is in my opinion a brilliant model of creationist thinking, representing a fundamental desire to believe in a primitive idea even if it means hiding away from facts.

Answer 1

Firstly the bacterial flagella cannot be explained by evolution as neither darwins nor any other evolutionary philosophies understand genetic science.

Evolution is an all encompassing word, which makes it very easy to be mislead. “Evolution is slow changes over time”, is one of the most popular explanations. Its always shown in the form of micro evolution, which is changes in creatures within their genetic code, for example a great dane and a chihuahua are both breeds of Dog. This means that they both came from the same gene pool, their basic design pattern is the same and the differences are in the selection of traits, such as size, colour, length of limbs etc. the genetic code does not take on some kind of new design information it simply takes choices from those existing. This is true in Darwins finches, its true in all animal kinds, and its true for us humans from midgets to giants, and from white to black.No one is better or more evolved than the other. Design information for each Kind is all from the same gene code. There are outside forces that sometimes cause these switches to take place, Isolated breeding, climates, altitudes, natural disasters, and some natural selection. Mutations can also take place like missing limbs, extra limbs, malfunctioning glands, etc these are called negative mutations. It is still taught however that positive mutations occur ie, new designs cans accidentally come into existence within the genetic code and slowly get improved upon until they become a complete intricate functioning design, eg; the eye or wings (or even the flagella to take a very simple example), However this is hopeful philosophy. Every part in the make up of every system in every creature comes from design information already in its genetic code.

Darwin neither new or dreamed that there could be a genetic code of design that every living part needs to be formed. He postulated that a small bump could be passed on and on through offspring and be added to every now and again and eventually become an eye without any design. through natural selection ie ( that traight helping the creature live when all others died).

The idea was that a simple cell was formed in the pre mordial soup (Rain on Rocks for millions of years) and that started us all off.( the living cell however is more complex in design than the space shuttle, but how were they to know that in the 1800's)

To beleive in evolution however you must first beleive that these changes can go beyond the genetic code. This is called Macro evolution and is actually only conjecture or philosophy, not real science. only micro evolution is real science.

If you are logical . I would ask you, can something come from nothing , or could it come from something we dont see or understand. Do chemicals go up the scale or down. Is design information introduced when we grow our technology (ofcourse it is ). Yet we call it evolution…and it is…But what  your asked to believe in many of the conjectures in the General theory of evolution is not real evolution.   This is why I say it confuses people.

Generally people show you their conclusions and call them evidence. You would do very well to understand the difference between evidence and people's conclusions…and learn how to think, not what to think.

Sorry if Ive offended you, but you dont seem to be open minded.  

edit

  Some of you guys would do well to learn to judge your own material, learn what constitutes real evidence, and what is purely the patting of each other on the back.

The more people agreeing with you does not make your beleif paradigm correct.

Answer 2

"Given that bacterial flagella are very easily explained by evolutionary theory, isn't the ignorance of this on creationists' parts just a way to "alter the facts" to suit their beliefs?"

That is one of the classic lines of proof for "Intelligent Design".  It is part of the distorted argument of non reducible complexity.  It is so obvious that parts that are no longer used will be discarded by evolution, that it makes me think that the people who think this up only do it to sell books.  Nobody could be that stupid, could they?  

I am not talking about the person with a casual interest that doesn't understand the question.  Surely the person who came up with the argument understood exactly what was going on.  That apparent deception is why I am not very friendly toward those "arguments" against evolution.

Answer 3

i don't know if they really beleive they have refuted evolution or they will just do whatever it takes to win people to Jesus.  i am curious what is actually going thru theur minds

Answer 4

Ideology is the "soul" of expedience when in defense of their indefensible positions.

Kenneth Miller made Behe look the fool at the Dover trial, but these people are so convinced " magic man done it " that they have stated even if they were convinced of the evidence they would stick with " the word of god. "

Not much to be done with such willful ignorance, except keeping it out of power.

Daniel R. You are so open minded that your brains have fallen out!