Balls off a brass monkey....?

Question

I'm trying to separate myth and history here.

The expression "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey" supposedly comes from the Navy.

Cannonballs were apparently stacked on brass plates (the Monkey) and held in place by a circle of waxed rope. In very cold weather the rope would contract and the balls would no longer fit and then fall off.

This sounds very nice but it falls down in several ways:

Why use expensive brass when iron or still would suffice?

It would need to get amazingly cold to get the rope to contract that much.

The naval term 'monkey' refers to a gun, not a plate.

So the suggestion is a bit iffy.

Alternatively, should it be "freezes the ball OF a brass monkey" whereby a gun gets so called that the balls freeze inside it. Again thougn, a problem, as such a gun(monkey) would only have one ball at a time and this would not be loaded until needed.

Any historians out there got any idea?

Answer 1

Very intuitive, Well i would guess that when brass freezes it tends to become like ice. (Usually the conditions that Pirates if you will lived in.)

So when the brass was fresh and the waxed rope was still warm. It can hold it well. While in cold conditions the wax would get like thin ice.

There are many flaws in my theory however.

Great question.

Answer 2

I don't know how true it is, but from an engineering background I heard the story that the Governor or flyball on a steam engine (the two brass balls which spin and decree the speed of the engine) were known as 'brass monkey's'. These were cast brass, and in very cold conditions the brass could crack, causing the balls to fall off when the engine started.

Answer 3

Note to muinghan"

Cannon balls are not and never were made of lead. They have always been made of cast iron.  

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq107....

Answer 4

My Great, Great, Great,Great, Great, Great,Great, Great, Great - Grandfather, had this little very well endowed monkey statue he used to carry everywhere with him.  He often was made fun of because of this monkey.  People treated him very poorly...

Any way, He was walking home one snowy night in mid January in Ankorage Alaska... well, at that point, he took his lil monkey statue of his pocket to help guide him home.

It was right then and there, that the monkey balls fell off.

and the story goes on.....

Answer 5

Every sailing ship had to have cannon for protection. Cannon of the times required round iron cannonballs. The master wanted to store the cannon-balls such that they could be of instant use when needed, yet not roll around the gun deck. The solution was to stack them up in a square based pyramid next to the cannon. The top level of the stack had one ball, the next level down had four, the next had nine, the next had sixteen, and so on. Four levels would provide a stack of 30 cannonballs. The only real problem was how to keep the bottom level from sliding out from under the weight of the higher levels. To do this, they devised a small brass plate ("brass monkey") with one rounded indentation for each cannonball in the bottom layer. Brass was used because the cannonballs wouldn't rust to the "brass monkey", but would rust to an iron one.

When temperature falls, brass contracts in size faster than iron. As it got cold on the gun decks, the indentations in the brass monkey would get smaller than the iron cannonballs they were holding. If the temperature got cold enough, the bottom layer would pop out of the indentations spilling the entire pyramid over the deck. Thus it was, quite literally, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a "brass monkey."

Answer 6

and not one cry of sympathy for a brass monkey who now sings like michael jackson

Answer 7

According to the United States Navy Historical Center, this is a legend of the sea without historical justification.  The center has researched this because of the questions it gets and says the term "brass monkey" and a vulgar reference to the effect of cold on the monkey's extremities, appears to have originated in the book "Before the Mast" by C.A. Abbey.  It was said that it was so cold that it would "freeze the tail off a brass monkey."   The Navy says there is no evidence that the phrase had anything to do with ships or ships with cannon balls.  

Answer 8

This phrase has been studied, pondered, and argued over for YEARS.

The truth of the matter is that WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THE PHRASE CAME FROM.

The bit about the ships and cannon balls......is completely unfounded, lead balls don't freeze, nor was there ever an item on a ship called a "monkey" or anything that ever sounded like it.

And trust me, with all that gun power on fire.....ain't nothing gonna be frozen.

Personally I think we just made it up cuz it sounded good. Freezing balls and brass monkeys just sound tough.

If you look around the internet you will find tons of discussions on the that phrase. No answers. Not from historians....not from language experts. We just don't know.

Finding the origin of that phrase would be the Rosetta Stone for language experts. There is honestly NO answer.

EDIT;

Excuse me. CAST IRON BALLS don't freeze.

I was thinking of pistols and firearms with LEAD BALLS, and TIN BALLS, and any OTHER METALIC BALLS....balls don't freeze. Cold water AROUND them might freeze but not BALLS themselves.

Answer 9

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass_monke...

(different explanations)

Summary of the eRumor from http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/b/b...

This piece of alleged history explains that in the olden days of sailing ships, cannon balls were stacked on the decks on brass plates called "monkeys."  The plates had indentions in them that held the balls on the bottoms of the stacks.  Brass, however, expands and contracts with the temperature and if it got cold enough, the cannon balls could fall...giving real foundation to the phrase "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey!"  





The Truth

According to the United States Navy Historical Center, this is a legend of the sea without historical justification.  The center has researched this because of the questions it gets and says the term "brass monkey" and a vulgar reference to the effect of cold on the monkey's extremities, appears to have originated in the book "Before the Mast" by C.A. Abbey.  It was said that it was so cold that it would "freeze the tail off a brass monkey."   The Navy says there is no evidence that the phrase had anything to do with ships or ships with cannon balls.  

Answer 10

Its folk etymology - the true origin is nothing to do with cannon, ships or the navy.

See:

http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/b...

Answer 11

the brass is the monkey it contracts and the balls roll off not the rope

brass is sued as iron would not last in sea water and air

Answer 12

First of all, it would make sense to me that the Navy would use brass instead of iron.  Iron rusts.  So iron wouldn't be good on a navy vessel, where it is in danger of getting wet with corrosive saltwater.  Steel contains iron, as well.  Brass is made of copper and zinc.  Since it has no iron, it doesn't rust.

I agree that "freezes the ball of a brass monkey" would make more sense, but you have to remember that terms like this often get bastardized over time.  You could very well be right in what it SHOULD be, but that doesn't mean it hasn't changed over time.