Baseball Poll: Complete Games?

Question

I was having a conversation with a very close friend and the complete game came up. I say pitchers of today, like Jake Peavy, can pitch more complete games like the pitchers of the past. She obviously didn't agree, so we discussed it further and we've come up with a poll question I'd love to ask all you wonderful Y!A baseball experts. Please pick an answer and why you feel this is the reason. I will award the 10 points to the best answer from the most popular choice.

The question is:

Why are there less complete games in today's game than in the past?

A) Pitchers aren't as well conditioned today as in the past.

B) Owners and GM's are protecting their investment?

C) Salaries to middle relievers are so high managers are forced to use them to justify their pay.

D) Today's lineups are simply that much better from 1-9 than in the past.

Please pick one and give a good arguement to why you feel this way.

Answer 1

It's hard to choose one answer out of all of them, but for the most part, owners and managers want to protect their investments. When Baker was still with the Cubs back in 2003, he ended up getting a lot of heat for supposedly using Wood and Prior too much, which some experts say led to Prior's downfall (when he could have been a legitimate power pitcher for years) and Wood's recurring injuries.

The bottom line is everything these days revolves around money. If you're a manager and end up dumping $40-50 million into an arm, you're going to try like h**l to keep it in the best shape and not overwork it. Strong arms and high-caliber pitchers bring fans to the ballpark. Fans coming out to games boosts revenue. Can't really go wrong if you're an owner.

Answer 2

Pitchers are probably better conditioned but not their arms. Kids 30 years ago had much better arms because of all the sandlot ball we played. Pitch counts are a joke. These guys need to be throwing more, not less. The quality start is the worst new statistic in baseball history.

Answer 3

B. If you have a starter go out twice a week and pitch nine innings from 63(?) feet they are more likely to be injured. And if you have 20 mil (at least) on the bench gm's aren't happy.

Answer 4

It's B because pitchers who pitch so many innings fall victim to injury so owners and GM's strive to protect their arms.

Answer 5

protecting their investment

but this is why i love guys like roy halladay and CC

they treat the other guys so delicately

Answer 6

B. Thank you for the compliment.

Answer 7

B.) GM's and managers are afraid of hurting and straining there pitchers. And now a days most of the players who can throw complete games are usually 23-30 years old. Also some players are afraid to hurt themselves (except Sabathia.)

Answer 8

Its a combination of B, C and D.

Probably mostly B. It seems that this all started around the same time salaries went crazy. But also more emhapais has been put on middle men over the last 10-20 years.

Answer 9

I think it's a combination of B and C and a little of E.

B) Good starting pitching costs SO MUCH now a days.  You pay them to pitch, but you want them to pitch for many years, so you trim their work load in non-critical situations so you hopefully save them for the next game and accrue a little pitching good will each time.

C) The worse thing that a GM can let a manager do is 'name' a closer.

If the game is 4-1 and the starter is cruising, let him finish the game.  

But hey, it's a save situation and if our named closer that we are paying 12 mill a year to doesn't get save opps, then he can't get saves and then what are we paying him for.

The whole middle reliever for the 7th inning, set up man for the 8th and closer for the 9th puts the starters sights on 6 innings.

Even a 6 inning, 3 run outing is called a quality start.

That's 4.5 runs a game, that's hardly quality.

E) Unnamed on your list, but here goes.

Players have really big egos and heads and the presence of agents doesn't help that.

Pitchers have been rewarded for giving it their all and piling up the K's even if after 100 pitches they are exhausted.

I believe a pitch count itself is somewhat of a misnomer because it's a combination of pitch count and effort.

You can have a really difficult stretch of 20 pitches which probably is more like 50, or you can have an easy 20 pitches which probably seem like 8.

Being in the Toronto area, I have the benefit of seeing Halladay pitch and he can get up to 130 pitches because his pitches are more effortless.  Much like Greg Maddux.

While I think about it, I will offer up an option F as well

F)  Because managers get paid so much, I think they feel they have to micro manage to keep their job and look like they are contributing to the game itself.

Making lots of pitching changes gives them visibility.

Answer 10

C)YOU CAN SEE THIS HAPPENING TO MANY TEAM'S. GAMES ARE NOW ONE IN THE 7,8,9 INNINGS.

Answer 11

It's B but the mound lowering didn't help pitchers. But yeah, GM's don't want to use there pitchers more than they need to.

Answer 12

Thank you for the compliment "Y!A Baseball Experts"

I would say that the answer to this question would be choice B. When you look at many pitchers and the way that there are so many games to be played. Owners and GMs want to protect their big guns for future ocations. Its the main reason why CC Sabathia is pitching so many complete games and throwing 110+ pitches every outing. The Brewers are only renting him for the season unless they sign him to a long term contract. They are planning on getting everything out of him so when another team gets him he wont have much left in him. But thats just my opinion.

I say its B  

Answer 13

2 words: Pitch Count.

Whoever decided that pitch counts meant anything was the reason for the loss of CGs. Pitchers now basically hit their limit at 100 and they only push that up to maybe the 130 range when the pitcher has a no hitter/perfect game or shut out going. Back then they threw way more pitches which meant more innings. Plus the game has changed where the bullpen has become a very specialized part of the game. There were no closers in Cy Young's day. It's the combination of strictly watched pitch counts and a heavier dependency on the bullpen that caused the decline in the complete game.  

Answer 14

Mostly B, but a little of C and D as well, but definitely not A. Most of today's players are much better conditioned than 30 years ago.

In 1982, the Mets had 19 complete games, and their manager, George Bamberger was livid, but in 1996, the Braves had 19 complete games and led MLB. Salaries for starters have skyrocketed and the owners are "coddling" their investments.

Answer 15

Its A little bit of all of them

Like in A) Pitchers aren't as well conditioned today as in the past

That is true pitchers are not trained and developed in the minors to go 9 inings while during the older days of baseball starting from A ball the pitchers were learning to go complete games

B-now this is what i think the reason we dont see as many complete games.

When you have millions of dollars invested in a pitcher

or

you have a young phenon pitcher like phil hughes or joba chamberlain

you want to protect there arm.

Now when you see a situation like the one we have in milwalkee with sabathia.

he is throwing a average of 120 pitches which is not good when most pitchers stress point is 105 when the season is over he is more likley to have arm problems like mark prior or kerry wood

Now C) Salaries to middle relievers are so high managers are forced to use them to justify their pay

somthing smart that baseball minds have started to do is have a releif ace were they bring in there best relief pitcher to get them critical outs and managers would radther go to there fresh pitcher then the pitcher who is getting towards the stress point.

And last but not least

D) Today's lineups are simply that much better from 1-9 than in the past.

hitters are soo much better today then they were during the dead ball era

that it is hard and hitters are so inteligent that they make it harder for the pitcher you have to change your style up to get hitters out the second and third time around the line up

Answer 16

B

Teams try to protect their investments by not unduly burdening their pitchers.  

Consider Denny McLain.  He was something of a phenom in the late 1960's when he as a 24 year old he won 31 games, followed by 24 the next year.  He did so by throwing around 325 innings each year and around 25 CG's.   Basically after that he was done.  Two years after his 24 win season he lost over 20 games.  The next year was his last, a victim of arm trouble at 28.

Maybe a little prudence would have worked well in limiting his innings.

Answer 17

D) Today's lineups are simply that much better from 1-9 than in the past.

Answer 18

You forgot another possible reason, they lowered the pitching mound in 1969 putting more stress on the pitcher's arm.  I've heard many Baseball experts say this has lead to many injuries and whatnot.