Beer styles recreation. Do you have any suggestions on style parameters?

Question

What I was attempting to do is experiment with traditional style and push them to the limit. Nothing new about that, but I want to explore styles not yet altered. Two styles I was focusing on are Vienna/Marzen (not Spezial) and Helles. One idea is to boost ABV and IBU’s. LOL I said it was an experiment.

Answer 1

you r making a new style of beer? that is so great.

I hope it works for you. I am still learning how to make the old styles lol.

Answer 2

Nice answer professor.

This seems like a great project. I hope it works good for you. think i will try something like this too.

LOL it seems more fit for Beer Monster to do this monster project.

Answer 3

Yeah man go for it. Be careful not to produce a straight Amber lager. I would suggest you try to up the IBU more than the ABV. That is because the wild bitter beers are the rage and the increased alcohol my lead you to making a bock. I am not much for extreme IBU other than the “yeah I had that,” experience. But I do like pushing the ABV. So use a high gravity mash and control the temperature to the cool side for fermentables. You will want a longer sparge time to increase extraction rates. But then you should be fine.

Answer 4

This is why many brewers and educators of beer do not believe in style definition. Once you cross a certain concentration of ABV or IBU it is a new style. There is a lot of crossover in styles as well. Yet it is a worthy effort. Attached to my answer is the style guidelines for the two base styles. The only way I think you can ‘super-size’ these beers and hope to still remain in style is with the use of adjuncts. This is due to color variation from grain use to get up to the IBU & ABV you want. But you just may create a new hybrid style.

I envy the idea. It has been quite some time since I did any crazy-brews. Speaking of bock I once did a bunch of bocks that I would try to increase ABV and lower the IBU. My attempts were the early version of the heavy Sherry-beers today such as Utopias. But my versions were not so refined. My concerns for your beer recipe involve the mash.

You will need strict temperature control as to not favor conversion one way too much. I mean to say, balance the conversion rate of your diastatic enzymes. Alpha-amylase is your workhorse for body and beta-amylase for your ABV. Temperature ranges of 144-159 F for infusion mashing allow for a combined effort. But you want to push the ABV so you want to favor Saccharification over dextrinization. To do this I recommend a mash temp. of no more than 145F. This will leave your beer thin as you are favoring sugar formation for alcohol production over dextrin which add body.

Do not think for a minute that the craft industry does not use adjuncts-they do! And if you want a decent mouth feel you must as well. Get some dextrin and fermentable sugar from your supplier. The sugar will still be needed if you want to jack-up your ABV and the dextrin so you do not feel as if you are drinking flavored water. It will take trial and error but by sticking to it you may be the next big man in the homebrew world.

Good luck.

It seems counter intuitive but you may want to start at a higher mash temp. and then cool it down. The higher temp. 148-154F works best with the production of dextrin. You then add cool water to lower the mash temp. to below 145F for fermentable sugar production. But again you can favor either and make the target S.G. with adjunct additions. In either case you are experimenting and all is good.

Last note. Diastase is about 75% beta-amylase, which favors sugar production. Consider that in your conversion calculations and mashing regime.

{conducting a proofreading now :  ) }

1D. Munich Helles

Aroma: Pleasantly grainy-sweet, clean Pils malt aroma dominates. Low to moderately-low spicy noble hop aroma, and a low background note of DMS (from Pils malt). No esters or diacetyl.

Appearance: Medium yellow to pale gold, clear, with a creamy white head.

Flavor: Slightly sweet, malty profile. Grain and Pils malt flavors dominate, with a low to medium-low hop bitterness that supports the malty palate. Low to moderately-low spicy noble hop flavor. Finish and aftertaste remain malty. Clean, no fruity esters, no diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Medium body, medium carbonation, smooth maltiness with no trace of astringency.

Overall Impression: Malty but fully attenuated Pils malt showcase.

History: Created in Munich in 1895 at the Spaten brewery by Gabriel Sedlmayr to compete with Pilsner-style beers.

Comments: Unlike Pilsner but like its cousin, Munich Dunkel, Helles is a malt-accentuated beer that is not overly sweet, but rather focuses on malt flavor with underlying hop bitterness in a supporting role.

Ingredients: Moderate carbonate water, Pilsner malt, German noble hop varieties.

Vital Statistics: OG: 1.045 – 1.051

IBUs: 16 – 22 FG: 1.008 – 1.012

SRM: 3 – 5 ABV: 4.7 – 5.4%

3A. Vienna Lager

Aroma: Moderately rich German malt aroma (of Vienna and/or Munich malt). A light toasted malt aroma may be present. Similar, though less intense than Oktoberfest. Clean lager character, with no fruity esters or diacetyl. Noble hop aroma may be low to none. Caramel aroma is inappropriate.

Appearance: Light reddish amber to copper color. Bright clarity. Large, off-white, persistent head.

Flavor: Soft, elegant malt complexity is in the forefront, with a firm enough hop bitterness to provide a balanced finish. Some toasted character from the use of Vienna malt. No roasted or caramel flavor. Fairly dry finish, with both malt and hop bitterness present in the aftertaste. Noble hop flavor may be low to none.

Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium body, with a gentle creaminess. Moderate carbonation. Smooth. Moderately crisp finish. May have a bit of alcohol warming.

Overall Impression: Characterized by soft, elegant maltiness that dries out in the finish to avoid becoming sweet.

History: The original amber lager developed by Anton Dreher shortly after the isolation of lager yeast. Nearly extinct in its area of origin, the style continues in Mexico where it was brought by Santiago Graf and other Austrian immigrant brewers in the late 1800s. Regrettably, most modern examples use adjuncts which lessen the rich malt complexity characteristic of the best examples of this style. The style owes much of its character to the method of malting (Vienna malt). Lighter malt character overall than Oktoberfest, yet still decidedly balanced toward malt.

Comments: American versions can be a bit stronger, drier and more bitter, while European versions tend to be sweeter. Many Mexican amber and dark lagers used to be more authentic, but unfortunately are now more like sweet, adjunct-laden American Dark Lagers.

Ingredients: Vienna malt provides a lightly toasty and complex, melanoidin-rich malt profile. As with Oktoberfests, only the finest

quality malt should be used, along with Continental hops (preferably noble varieties). Moderately hard, carbonate-rich water. Can use some caramel malts and/or darker malts to add color and sweetness, but caramel malts shouldn’t add significant aroma and flavor and dark malts shouldn’t provide any roasted character.

Vital Statistics: OG: 1.046 – 1.052

IBUs: 18 – 30 FG: 1.010 – 1.014

SRM: 10 – 16 ABV: 4.5 – 5.5%

Answer 5

You are most certainly experimenting. I can drink a Helles if made right. I like the maltiness in a Vienna which should be able to handle the increased bitterness and alcohol. Do not mash too long or your beer will be thin. Are you using fermentable adjuncts to increase your ABV? Look for a strong fermenting yeast. I suggest using your reg choice for brewers yeast for beer flavor and a wine yeast for greater attenuation. This mead yeast may work for you Activator 3632.