Breeding dogs....for a better breed?? or to simply win in the show ring???

Question

whats your views on "experienced show breeders"? (I'm not however labelling all bad) and I'm sure your all tired of hearing this subject, but its one that must be addressed.

i am more and more in favour of those who breed working types and hobby breeders, these are the people who really seem to be bettering breeds don't you think, health wise, conformastion wise?

breeding a dog for showing does not make it a better dog, it makes it a heavier, more wrinkly, worse breathing, shorter life, sometimes suffering dog.

their are many views on dog breeds, i am just shocked at how narrow minded a lot of breeders, judges are on their breeds, some seem to simply not care that their dogs are uncomfortable as long as they look good and win.

i cant belive the dog world has become like this can you?

it sadens me that people use animals in this way.

Answer 1

i saw a program last night about this and it sickens me who cares what a dog looks like as long as its a good pet pedigree dogs are ****! a cross breed or any type of dog is a loving animal! all dogs are crosses to create a certain type of dog! inbreeding is wrong and should be banned look at all the health problems! a working top in my eyes will always be a excellent dog that has not been genetically modified! i own an iniut, old type german shepherd cane corso and rotty all from the original working type of herding as all the dogs i own were bred for,, pritty hard to believe for a rotty!!

The kennel club and breeders should be put down like the poor dogs that have these health issuses through them!

Answer 2

http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/start.h...

http://www.ckcsc.org/ckcsc/healthreg.nsf...

I'd add a link to the Swedish cavalier mandatory breeding protocol but it's not in english.There are many breeders working to improve the health of the breed,just as there are ones that aren't.You support the good one's and don't put money in the others pockets.

MVD has improved with testing and careful breeding,SM is still being investigated and headway is being made.

Answer 3

Responsible breeders who show will carry out all the relevant health tests on their dogs and b*tches and ensure that the stud dogs they use are rigorously health tested. Whether they breed for function and from is another matter, as function is not really assessed in the show ring. In Germany a Dobermann cannot be a champion without having a

Schutzhund 3 title in addition to winning in the show ring. For working breeds like the Dobermann, this is something I agree with.

Personally I am now looking for a Dobermann with strong working lines, as bred by Louis Dobermann.

Less responsible breeders who like to see some 'red' (denoting Championship status) on their pedigrees, take their (untested) b*****s to an (untested) Champion, produce a fine litter on paper, but the puppies could suffer serious health problems.

Answer 4

I think that some breeders that show do seem to get obcessed with winning and seem to forget about health problems or think about them second

BUT

there are also many good breeders that show that do take health problems very seroiusly,

i think the main problem is irrisponsidly breeders and breeders that dont realy know what there doing and not doing any of the breeds health checks.

Also i think that shows should require either a clear health ceterfic (or mabe one with a minor problem being allowed)  to be presented for the dog to be judged. that way dogs with health probs that arnt obvious wont be shown so people wont want to bred to them.

Answer 5

There are plenty of good dogs in need of adoption.

Answer 6

We show our dogs, and have had a few litters.

First of all, none of our dogs mind showing. In fact, they really enjoy it. We make it fun for our dogs - it's certainly true that some handlers out there have broken down their dog into nothing more than showing zombies, but that's the minority - the majority of people out there showing are doing it because it's fun for us as well as our dogs. It may look like all business in the show ring, but that's only a small portion of what actually happens at a dog show. There are long walks, lots of treats and love, playing with toys, shopping, meeting new people, on and on. In fact, only one of our dogs really doesn't enjoy being in the ring, and he doesn't show anymore just for that reason. We would never push our dogs and make them uncomfortable.

As for breeding, we've had 3 litters in the 10 years we've been with the breed. These 3 litters all came from our beloved girl, Hope. She blessed us with 8, 7, and 10 beautiful puppies.

Breeders don't breed to produce a better show dog - they breed to preserve the breed standard. Since showing dogs goes hand in hand with having dogs that match the breed standard, they go together. Dogs are picked based on their strengths and weaknesses - the dogs should compliment each other, and strengthen the other's weaknesses. While some breeders do inbreed (again, this is a small minority) most breeders will do what's called linebreeding - simply put, breeding similar or distantly related dogs for a few generations, then doing an outcross - breeding to an entirely unrelated dog. The goal of breeders is simple - to preserve the breed standard. That doesn't mean producing a heavier, more wrinkly, worse breathing, shorter life, sometimes suffering dog. BYBs will often do this, however - produce a more comical version of a dog so it will sell fater because of how cute it is. We breed to produce the healthiest puppies we can. Any puppies that we fell won't do as well in the show ring because of their faults (don't match the breed standard) are sold as loving pets. Any puppies we feel could grow to match the standard well and would be an asset to preserving the breed are placed in show homes or are kept by us - to grow, to be beloved pets and friends, and yes, perhaps one day stepping into the show ring, having a blast, perhaps one day helping to preserve the breed by producing a litter of puppies or 2, then going back to rolling in the mud in the backyard.

Answer 7

personnaly i think it should be put in the kc rules that a dog should undergo sccreening and health tests before it can enter a show. I think alot of people who show the dogs have got there eye on the prize rather than the health of the dog.

how would they like to be paraded round in pain

Answer 8

Breeding dogs for a better breed or to simply win in the show ring - the 2 aren't mutually exclusive, in fact, in most breeds, you can't breed a dog that will win in the show ring if you are not breeding to improve the breed.

By adhering to the standard you are trying to ensure that the dog is physically & mentally capable of doing the job for which it was originally bred.

Here's the 1st line of the standards for one breed in each of the 7 groups in the UK.

Tell me how, adhering to these descriptions could possibly harm these breeds?

Labrador: Strongly built, short-coupled, very active.

Beagle: sturdy, compactly built hound.

Border Collie: Well proportioned, smooth outline showing quality, gracefulness and perfect balance, combined with sufficient substance to give impression of endurance.

Irish Terrier: An active, lively and wiry appearance; plenty of substance but free of clumsiness.

Cavalier: Active, graceful and well balanced, with gentle expression.

Mini Schnauzer: Sturdily built, robust, sinewy, nearly square.

Dobermann: Medium size, muscular and elegant, with well set body. Of proud carriage, compact and tough. Capable of great speed.

You are talking about a tiny, tiny proportion of breeds.

What about every one of the many Spitz breeds - natural breeds whose conformation may be slightly different for different uses but with no exaggeration?

Answer 9

First of all, bettering a breed means a goal of achieving breed standard.  Breed standard exists for a reason; for a dog of sound body, mind and structure who can physically perform the task he was created for and thrive in doing so.  Poor structure and health is the result of poor breeding.  Poor breeding does not create show or work quality animals.

In response to your comment "I can't believe the dog world has become like this, can you?":

Your perception is seriously distorted.  Based on that statement, I'm going to assume your young.  The "dog world" has gotten worse in recent years, yes.  However, it's not worse because of responsible, selective breeding.  It's gotten worse because of the abundance of irresponsible, poor breeding that has resulted in unhealthy, structurally unsound dogs with horrible temperaments as well as intentionally bred mutts for profit.  Back in the day, breeding was done to achieve a specific goal.  Dogs were needed for work- to help humans survive and make a living.  The show ring is where they prove their ability to adhere to the standard that enables them to do such work.  People needed the dogs to thrive so they didn't breed frivolously just to make a couple bucks like so many irresponsible breeders do today.

Responsible breeding has done nothing but improved with time.  

Answer 10

Boss says it all.

You and IBaker apparently watched a program that was h**l bent on sensationalizing only the negative image.

Don't take as gospel anything that you see on tv, or read in the paper.

Yes, the Shar Pei is being hounded by genetic defects - but did you know that at one point in history, there were only 25 of this breed left in the world?  It is that small gene pool that true breeders are trying to work with, and improve.

Answer 11

I think you need to do a lot of research on this subject, you will get the breeders stating that they hold the knowledge and expertise above everyone else including vets, geneticists and other scientists and you will get the anti-breeding brigade on the other extreme. If you want a balanced view read widely from scientific and academic viewpoints. From a biological viewpoint diversity is a good thing which the species requires to survive but that is one discipline, research the others, you may find answers to some of your questions from biologists, zoologists, vets etc. Knowledge gives you the power to make informed decisions.  

Answer 12

i totally dissagree with the so called DESIGNER DOGS that people are breeding such as CAVACHONS LABRADOODLE and all the other silly breeds that people are making due to mixed breeding i own 2 cavaliers and NO WAY ON THIS EARTH WOULD I PUT MY MALE DOG TO STUD WITH A DIFFERENT BREED THAN HE IS AND I WOULDNT LET MY FEMALE DOG HAVE ANY PUPPYS WITH ANOTHER BREED OF DOG i think it is WRONG ill probally get greif for writting this but it is what i think and i dnt care if anybody doesnt like it

Answer 13

Confirmation show has lead to the demise of some really great working dog breeds, especially because of AKC, things are a little different in Europe.

One of the best examples but certainly not only, is the "american" german shepherd. As anyone would know they are a herding dog Show breeders HAVE NOT been breeding a dog that would be a good herding dog with its extreme rear angulations that no other herding breed has. They breed for this special flying trot. Although pleasing to the eye, it has no purpose for herding. To sum it up american breeders have destroyed a great dog both working ability and looks. German shepherds were never supposed to be show dogs.

Many working dog breed organizations such as for border collies refuse to be accepted in the akc for this reason.

BUT showing dogs actually makes better FAMILY dogs. Dogs that are more suitable for our growing and changing society. People don't want a husky that can trek through the iditarod sled race, they just want a family dog that's good in the house and with the kids, which most show breeders breed for.

So it's a win lose situation really. Destroy past working ability, make better family dog.

Answer 14

i guess you watched the program that was on last nigh as well? i was horrified at the attitude of some of the breeders,  i admit is have shown my dogs and bred them  but i never had this attitude, i bred for the love of my breed but i always got health checks done first and would never put a dog down just because it was not perfect, i don't like the showing side it is not about the love of the breed anymore, which is why i got into it, i have just retired my last breeding girl to the couch and won't be breeding any more it is a heartbreaking road to go down sometimes,  some of the dogs have changed so much and some breeders don't care about the hereditary illnesses that are becoming so common, if people don't start breeding out these illnesses then it is going to be the dogs that suffer, it broke my heart to see the heartless attitudes of some of the breeders it really should not be like that, people need to start putting the dogs health first and titles second,  it is heartbreaking what is happening to some of the dogs and it needs to be corrected before it is too late,  whether it is right or wrong i won't be breeding anymore i would rather give a home to the dogs who are in  breed rescue centres as they are seen as imperfect but they are still loving dogs just not for showing, but not all breeders are as heartless as the ones you have seen there are some really good breeders out there there just needs to be more like them to improve the health of their breed,  

Answer 15

that documentary made me cry. im so angry about it, i just cant explain in words. i cant believe the kind of world we have made that people are killing perfectly healthy dogs because they wont win a show. i dont think a unhealthy dog should win shows.

makes me feel sick

Answer 16

Form begets function.  Conformation is necessary to have a dog that can perform its required tasks.  No show breeder breeds to enhance negative aspects of a breed, they breed towards an established physical description of what a dog should look like in order to be a functional working dog.

Answer 17

I saw the bbc programme last night and couldn't believe how serious a problem in-breeding has become. I was disgusted by the attitude of the breeders who only seem to care about money and they have the nerve to call themselves animal lovers. The kennel club needs to stop close relation breeding and we should revert the breeds back to how they were 100 years ago - slightly different but a lot healthier!

Answer 18

Seeing your name, I think you must be upset. Cavaliers are victims of this so called 'Show Breeding' which basically breeds unhealthy deformed dogs. I mean, the cavalier's skull is so small it's brain doesn't fit! It's agony!

Britain is supposed to be a nation of dog lovers. I don't think I will see Britain this way now.

We have ruined perfectly healthy dogs just for our pleasure, and often money. It makes me so angry I could go on for hours, so I'm going to stop here before steam starts coming out of my ears.

Answer 19

I think that responsible breeders (the ones that care about the dogs) don't do it for the money. The place where I got my pup came from a place that has 12 dogs, half boys half girls, yet they only have 3 litters a year, because they know the dangers of breeding too often. Yes, they breed for showing, but they also breed for family pets, they ones that aren't "show-worthy". For the pups that are show worthy they send pamphlets of advice to the owner/s to tell them what the background is. They don't inbreed, they make sure that they are not in the same immediate family. Some breeders would do this. Responsible breeders would not.

This particular breeder prefers for you to call them first for little things, that you would normally call the vet for, unless of course it is an emergency. This breeder, if we ever had to give the dog up, wants to get the dog back so that they can find a suitable home for it. They care about their pups because they are apart of their family. These are the types of things that responsible breeders do. Any one that doesn't love and care for their pets shouldn't breed them.