Question:

CHRISTIANITY - Do you think letter from Pliny to Trajan 110CE is a phony? (yet historians have "verified" it)?

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"It is my practice, my lord, to refer to you all matters concerning which I am in doubt. For who can better give guidance to my hesitation or inform my ignorance? I have never participated in trials of Christians. I therefore do not know what offences it is the practice to punish or investigate, and to what extent. And I have been not a little hesitant as to whether there should be any distinction on account of age or no difference between the very young and the more mature; whether pardon is to be granted for repentance, or, if a man has once been a Christian, it does him no good to have ceased to be one; whether the name itself, even without offences, or only the offences associated with the name are to be punished".

So this is a governor who supposedly didn’t even know the laws of the land or whether or not to be a Christian makes you worthy of punishment!

"Meanwhile, in the case of those who were denounced to me as Christians, I have observed the following procedure: I interrogated these as to whether they were Christians; those who confessed I interrogated a second and a third time, threatening them with punishment; those who persisted I ordered executed. For I had no doubt that, whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.

Soon accusations spread, as usually happens, because of the proceedings going on, and several incidents occurred. An anonymous document was published containing the names of many persons. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ--none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do--these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ".

It seems strange because he’s talking about an anonymous document and that this anonymous person said that they were Christians and then denied it. It makes no sense:

"They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food. Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations. Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition.

I therefore postponed the investigation and hastened to consult you. For the matter seemed to me to warrant consulting you, especially because of the number involved. For many persons of every age, every rank, and also of both sexes are and will be endangered. For the contagion of this superstition has spread not only to the cities but also to the villages and farms. But it seems possible to check and cure it. It is certainly quite clear that the temples, which had been almost deserted, have begun to be frequented, that the established religious rites, long neglected, are being resumed, and that from everywhere sacrificial animals are coming, for which until now very few purchasers could be found. Hence it is easy to imagine what a multitude of people can be reformed if an opportunity for repentance is afforded".

Nevertheless, “Christians” are defined as solar worshippers; nothing more. Christianity was the solar era, which had been around long before Jesus allegedly came on the scene.

Krishna worshippers: Christians. Dionysus worshippers: Christians. Etc…

Trajan’s reply:

You observed proper procedure, my dear Pliny, in sifting the cases of those who had been denounced to you as Christians. For it is not possible to lay down any general rule to serve as a kind of fixed standard. They are not to be sought out; if they are denounced and proved guilty, they are to be punished, with this reservation, that whoever denies that he is a Christian and really proves it--that is, by worshiping our gods--even though he was under suspicion in the past, shall obtain pardon through repentance. But anonymously

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4 ANSWERS


  1. Go ask this at iidb. There are real biblical scholars there.


  2. This is very interesting...

    Meanwhile, the sheer callousness of Pliny is striking. No wonder the idea of a gentle god was so appealing to many powerless Romans.

  3. What, exactly, are you trying to say here?  That nearly all historians are wrong?  I'm curious, what kind of degree do you have, and from which university?

    What Pliny was asking was if it was okay to pardon people who were accused of being Christians, but who had recanted, and if he had done the right thing.  What's so wrong about that?

    And Pliny does NOT say that the people who recanted Christianity were "anonymous", only that the document was.  It's fascinating, actually, that it was mentioned.  I would guess that this document was published in order to denounce the names on the list, and the person who published it was trying to cause a mass execution of those they thought were Christians.

    As for the idea that Christians are "solar worshipers", where did that come from, and what does it have to do with Krishna or Dionysus?  I'm sure the Hindus who revere Krishna would be interested to know that you define them as Christians, and I'm pretty sure the ancient Greeks would certainly not have defined themselves as Christians, either.

    Again, what exactly are you trying to prove here?

  4. Think Salem Witch Trials and you get the idea behind this anonymous document.  Someone with a grudge wrote down names of people as a list of Christians just to get back at them.  Obviously at that time being a Christian was "illegal".  So to get revenge on them this anonymous person listed people who weren't even Christians as a way to get back at them, then later recanted when the people on the list were proven to not be Christian, but sun worshipers.

    Is it a real letter?  I have no idea, but it neither disproves or proves anything other than Pliny had no clue what to do with them lol

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