Can't one progress sufficiently, quickly?

Question

Why do so many people have the attitude that you can't learn anything in a short period of time? "10 years to become a black belt" when a black belt is only the beginning.

400 years ago (give or take -- Sengoku Jidai), many of these Japanese "arts" (at least) were taught to warriors in a matter of weeks before being told they were proficient and sent back out to fight with a little knowledge under their belts, and maybe a makimono with some notes.

At 17, Takamatsu Toshitsugu received his Menkyo Kaiden (license of complete transmission) in Takagi Yoshin Ryu from Mizuta Yoshitaro Tadafusa, whom he met sometime in the 4 years after leaving for the George Bundow English School in Kobe.

I simply wonder: how much of the "Ten years to achieve the bare minimum understanding" approach is tied up in the commercial aspects of martial arts schools?

Thoughts?

Answer 1

Proficient to fight is not equivalent to being a master. You need to give it more thought. You take a course in math at  high school school it does not make you a math mathematician.  

Answer 2

Good question, nice change from most of the drivel that's been asked on here lately.

I can only speak from an Okinawin karate perspective so that's what I will do. I do not necessarily think it takes 10 years in most schools to get a Black Belt. I think it varies but anywhere from 3-5 years is a comftorable range for me. As for being able to use it, a person should at least be able to defend themselves half way decent within a year.

I definetly feel that there is so much to learn that karate can be trained and learned from for a lifetime. Within 3-5 years, you basicly have the basics ingrained in your system enough that you do not have to actually think about how to do a technique, and can instead focus on what it is for. Remember that not only are you learning stances, but breathing, correct blocking positions, correct kicking and punching, not to mention breakfalls. Traditional Okinawin karate is taught in levels, and the hardest level is actually up to Black Belt, because everything is new. After a while you will be able to pick up new techniques fairly quickly, because you already have some experience with similiar movements.

A huge part is also the traditional teaching methods. It is set up so that if you are a shady charicter or lazy or just mean, you are found out before you learn stuff that can do to much damage. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I do know it has worked for a long time.

It used to be that a Black belt meant something, that you were at least very compatent, which is something that is lacking now days. In all honesty not requiring people to train for far longer to achieve black belt then most schools do today is the main reason karate is looked down upon so much by uninformed people on here.

I also agree with Rob R that if the main goal of a school is to retain all students and get more money, the best way to do that in America with it's I want it now attitude is to premote faster.

Just some thoughts.

  

Answer 3

yes, it is possible to learn things faster then other people.

generally speaking though, most people today either learn something like boxing and kickboxing or tkd in a few years are are decent at what they have been shown.

unfortunately they haven't been shown much.

a complete martial art will take a very long time to attain true skill. i was always told that you can learn something in a fraction of the time if you do it efficiently. now to do things efficiently doesn't mean you can be lazy, it means you have to have the right mindset to take on a martial art, it means you must be shown the correct things, and you must be practicing correctly. it also helps if you think about what you have been shown and practice in your mind - the more you visualize the easier and more vivid it becomes.

i mean you could be training for 10 years and still not be great at what your doing, if you are shown incorrect technique and training methods, if you only sort of listen to your instructor and end up practicing things slightly wrong (its sad but i see a lot of people that make this mistake) practice doesn't make perfect. perfect practice makes perfect.

its easier to get good at something like wrestling, or grappling, because you can practice it live with a partner without injuring them. in the striking arts its different and harder train because of the nature of hitting peoples vital points or knocking them out. in ancient times fighting was more common and using martial arts to defend yourself was a must, and was expected to be used.

i'll sum this up by saying if you train seriously in a martial art, yes you can learn it faster. if you want something for nothing or expect everything within a few years then you might not be as good as you think your black belt says you are.  

Answer 4

Certainly, if we teach our military members to become soldiers in a couple of months it is possible that an army fighting with rudimentary weapons and open handed could be trained in the same time.  However would they be proficient enough to teach others, probably not.

While different arts and different school within some arts have different requirements for Black Belts, they usually have one similarity.  They require that the student not only be proficient in the basics of their art, but that they possess the ability to teach it as well.  Given that, I can understand that a child starting at 5 years old would require at least 10 years before being at that level.  However, an adult can accomplish the same in a much shorter time.  We also have to allow for the occasional phenom who just learns naturally and has a great attitude.

So is it tied up in commercialism as you theorized?  I don't beleive so.  The very commercialized McDojo's generally promote to black belt faster so they can keep the students interested and collect those huge testing fees.  A school that required 10 years of study would see a lot of turnover.  How many people have trouble staying focused for 4 yyears to get a college degree?  How many people move within 10 years or lose their jobs and have to cut out discretionary spending.  

My theory is that a few people who did take that long to get their belts for one reason or another and their egos prevent them from believing someone could do it faster.

Answer 5

Well man as much as "traditional arts" have defended their "time in rank" policies this tells me only one thing.  That monthly fee pays their dojo's rent you know what I'm saying?  In the same token though if any one just learns and discontinues their practice whether at the dojo or at home then they do lose memory of technique as well as applying it.  I think 10 years to become a 1st Dan would be utterly rediculous though.  I think that alot of these two years until 1st Dan schools are pushing it and of course on the flip side of that these "hybrid arts" which offer 1st Dan in 9 months or so is completely rediculous as well.  I'd rather be a guru of an art than anything these days.

Guru - an intellectual or spiritual guide or leader.  

* Any person who counsels or advises; mentor: The elder senator was her political guru.  

* A leader in a particular field: the city's cultural gurus.  

Afterall with all the ways to learn out there what's in a title or rank any way right?  The hardest work is accomplished at home in the modern day age.