Can I use lacquer as a primer/sealant before I paint my kitchen cabinets?

Question

Long story here...we're painting our kitchen cabinets to get our house ready to sell. They were a dark cherry color and everything else in our kitchen is light so we wanted to paint them white. They're the originals in a 52 year old house. I read everything I could find online so they would look good and not like someone threw paint on them.

SO I cleaned them with TSP substitute solution and then used two coats of liquid deglosser. I didn't think it was quite enough so I sanded them as well using tack cloth before priming them with 123 primer, I did two coats. The next day when I went to sand off excess and the primer peeled right off and would easily scrape off...I guess they weren't deglossed enough. I of course was devastated b/c all the work I'd done seemed to have been for nothing. They looked horrible and so I stripped the primer off...it was a mess all over the doors. There is still a good amount of primer stuck in the insides of the door crevices, I'm still trying to get it all off.

I'm not exactly sure what to do next and have heard several different pieces of advice. Someone told me to use lacquer on them and that it would seal them and make the paint stick. Someone else told me to use KILZ but I'm afraid that will do the same thing the 123 primer did. I'm leaning towards using lacquer and have searched unsuccessfully online to see if that was an ok thing to do. The person who told me that said her son refinishes furniture all the time and does that so he doesn't have to prime. Is this the right way to go? Most of the cabinet frames have only been cleaned, will they be ready to paint if I just lacquer them? I've worked on these stupid cabinets for about 24 hours so far and just want to be done with them, please help!

Answer 1

Some good wisdom & some well intended but dead wrong tips.

To the point , lacquer or shellac  is not a good primer for kitchen cabinets using paint as a  finish.

Some of the other  primers mentioned are for walls.

The fact that you are stripping off what you have started will help.

You mentioned the cabinets were dark cherry." color."& hopefully

real  wood or veneer ply.

Got fingernails?

Scrape the surface  if anything comes off , whatever you finish the cabinets with will come off also.

Degreasing is key to whatever they are, even a little greasy residue will cause any primer or finish to soften & release.

Real wood (solid or veneer) is the easiest & once  cleaned & primed will hold paint.

be-a-ler has you on the right track. & is one h**l of a typist.

OK...since you started stripping  continue ,.

It will get rid of grease & old finish

avoid sanding if you can , better to burnish w/ fine steel or bronze wool.

Im thinking a melamine paint & primer would be best since they dry thin & hard.

A pro paint shop or home center may have it.

Fingernails again before painting.

If the primer is tight the paint will adhere.

The broad surfaces of the doors & panels show everything so a small investment in a good brush for corners & mohair rollers for the door faces & panels.

They give a fine finish that will look almost "sprayed"

Foam rollers & brushes are for painting birdhouses.

Had a shop & had to undo a number of DIY projects. if the cabinets were worth saving & the owners insisted on  paint.

Would strip whatever could be brought to the shop & got it ready to be painted by the owner if they could not get the cabinets  there.

By rolling the paint on the finish was uniform on the doors , panels & cabinets.

Been a while & there might be some  " wonder" finishes I do not know about , but the basic prep does not change.

All is not lost, but you still have some work ahead of you.

Best regards

Answer 2

You do have a mess here.  i see a few errors, but I think this can be fixed.

First, the problems, not in any particular order . . .

There should not be any sanding after a liquid deglosser.  This is not so much a problem as it is a waste of deglosser.  The sanding will remove the deglossed layer fairly easily, leaving behind a fresh, hard finish (not necessarily glossy).  I'm not sure the deglosser would help much with this one anyway -- a bit more on that later.

123 is not the best product for this application.  123 will bond to glossy surfaces, but BIN (a shellac based primer, same manufacturer) is a better choice for real problem surfaces.  KILZ is also a poor choice, it is not even advertised as a bonding primer.  KILZ Premium does have some bonding properties, but again not as good as the old fashioned shellac based products.  The search for a shellac replacement is for convenience of use, not because the shellacs don't work.

The other problem with your application is two coats of the 123.  One should be sufficient, the second will do absolutely nothing toward improving the bond.  Only the first coat, in direct contact with the surface will bond to the surface.  The second bonds to the first coat and builds a slightly thicker film.  I am not sure this contributed to your problem, but it did not help your situation in any way.

The primer should not be sanded.  It is not abrasion resistant.  Sanding generates a remarkable amount of heat, which is not good for the film before it is cured.  This could have caused your problem.  The primer will continue to cure and  get stronger over a period of two weeks or so.  It is normal for this type of product to look uneven after application -- its job is to seal the surface and keep things from penetrating the surface, not to mask color.  Your topcoat will take care of color variations and even the bit of texture that you may perceive.

Lacquer can be used, cut about 50% with lacquer thinner to prime bare wood.  It penetrates the wood and seals the surface.  Cutting allows the grain to remain a bit open so paint will stick.  The problem with using it in this case is the wood is already sealed.  Even thinned, the lacquer would sit on the surface and form a film, so no that is not an option.  I would not recommend this practice unless you have lacquer you need to burn as you can get better results on bare wood with a good oil primer with less expense and mess.

The other complicating factor in this mess is the original finish on the cabinets.  From what you are describing and the vintage of the cabinets, the finish is probably some type of nitrocellulose lacquer.  Nasty stuff.  It penetrates the wood deep and builds a very durable finish.  I doubt that a liquid deglosser will do much to it.

Solution . . .  I'm not sure, frankly if anyone tells you they have the certain fix they don't know what they are talking about.  There were so many different types of finishes in use in that time frame, each with different properties.  The most important advice would be to go slow, experiment a bit and make sure it is going to work before you put the effort into doing all of the cabinets.

My first attempt would go something like this:

1) Remove the primer.  Sounds like you are working on that.  I would not worry about little bits deep in corners and crevices -- if you can't scrape it out, it probably will not fall out.

2) Clean.  I prefer a good strong TSP solution to TSP substitute.  Rinse and dry.  You must rinse as TSP leaves a residue.

3) Prime again, BIN would be a good choice, plain old white shellac would do just as well.  Check the date code on the can, shellacs do have a shelf life and this is not the time to take a chance on expired product.  Brush on, 1 coat, don't worry about the streaked appearance or slight texture, although shellac usually levels fairly smooth on its own.

4) Cure the primer for 24 hours.  Forget the drying time on the can, longer will help the bond a bit and do no harm as long as you don't let it go long enough to accumulate fresh dirt.

5)  No sanding.

6)  Apply the finish paint.  I would use 100% acrylic latex, brushed on.  A durable acrylic latex may not cover in one coat, that is just the way it works.  Wait longer than the minimum dry time to recoat, but not longer than the maximum.  If this type of paint cures too much before you recoat you will need to sand before the next, you don't want to sand this.  I would give it 8 hours or so between coats.  I also like to put a coat of waterborne polyurethane on this type of project -- it gives an extra "pop" and makes the surface more durable.  If you want to do this, it should also be applied in the 8 - 12 hour window after the last coat of paint.

7)  Wait.  Give everything time to cure and develop a good bond.  3 days or so should give you a good idea.

8) Test.  Get some 3/4" or 1" masking tape.  Not the blue painter's tape or any kind of easy release -- good old fashioned masking tape.  Tear off a strip 3" or so, fold over one end a bit to make a tab to grab on to.  Place the tape on the finished surface and press it in a bit.  Wait a minute or so, then grab the tab and pull the tape off using an even motion, pulling perpendicular to the finished surface.  

This is the moment of truth -- if the tape comes of clean, your paint job will be fine and you are good to go with the rest.  If the paint comes off, this has not fixed the problem and you will need a different approach.

Bit long, but hope some of this helps you a bit.

Answer 3

I think you didn't let the primer cure. Use a water based primer on them. I spray paint my cabinet doors outside. I use an enamel spray paint. Spray painting is more durable if you do several light coats. I am in the middle of painting my kitchen cabinets again. They were originally a dark oak. I cleaned,primed and painted them white. Now they are going black frames and red doors. I don't have to prime since I'm painting over paint and going darker.

Once you prime the cabinets again(roll the primer on using a small foam roller and a foam brush)DO NOT sand them just paint them.

GOOD LUCK!!!