Can an E-4 counsel an E-2? This E-4 is completely in charge of a maintenance shop. The E-2 is habitually late?

Question

The E-4 is in charge of a do-it-yourself wood shop. The shop has tons of equipment and the NCOIC was pulled for other duties. The E-4 has ran the shop extremely well. He has 3 soldiers (all privates) that work under him, can he counsell the E-2 for being late to work everyday? The soldiers that work in the shop are all from different companies. The E-4 has talked with the E-2's NCO but that hasn't helped. He has decided to put the tardiness on paper, but has met some resistance from other NCO's. They cited that he cannot counsell him because he is a specialist. Is this true?

Answer 1

Yes he can. A counseling is only an evaluation of ones duties and responsibilities. If that Spc is in charge, he has every right to counsel his subordinates. He will not have grounds to give him an article 15, but with the counseling statements in his counseling folder, a fellow NCO can give him one.

Answer 2

If the E4 ever wants to see E5 this is his chanceto show what he is made of..

  

Answer 3

I would think to a certain extent the E-4 has the right to counsel the privates, considering he's in a leadership role.  However, if the E-4 is meeting resistance, then he should communicate that with his supervisor/platoon sergeant.  It may be that his company gives him a lateral promotion to Corporal and appoint him as NCOIC of that shop.  In which case, he'd be considered an NCO and have the power to counsel these soldiers.  

Answer 4

You bet your azz he can council him. I was also in a leadership position as a Specialist and I handed out 4856s whenever I felt necessary to include monthly counseling.

Sounds to me this E-4 needs to let his leadership know that if he is going to be put in a position of authority they need to support him on disciplinary issues. He is in a NCO position and should be given that respect.

Answer 5

My last counseling (good not bad) was done by an E-4 promotable.

Answer 6

absolutely not. As a matter of fact it is your duty to counsel the e-2 to keep the problem from escalating.

Answer 7

Yes, the E-4 can and should.  

Answer 8

The link will take you to a PDF of DA 2823.

If you are the Spec. 4 take a look, print it out and talk to your Squad Leader/Plt. Sgt or Plt. Leader  if necc. to witness the counseling.

If your own COC does not support you I would just send the guy back to his unit and make sure both his 1st Sgt and Plt. Sargent know why you do not want him nd that he is NOT wanted back. I will guess he is a $h!tbird anyway they passed off on you.

Had similar problems when I was a Spec 5 filling an E7 slot in the Reserve.

SSG US Army 73-82

Answer 9

The rank doesn't mean S**t. There no "rank must be a NCO or officer" clause on a DA 4856 form for counseling. I was an E-4 (specialist and corporal) team leader in the infantry and had 3 PFCs to counsel just like a E-5 would have had.

Hook ole boy up and produce the paperwork. Remove him your section if possible and make those NCOs earn their pay.

Good luck with this and it's awesome your are stepping up in your responsiblities.