Can there be cases when a pupil outdoes his master overtime?

Question

Specially when the master teaches to his pupil everything he knows.

Answer 1

It depends. In today's society, it's probably more possible.

Consider a lineage wherein X is the lineage head of the tradition, Y is your master, and Z is you. Assume that you trained to the point where Y honestly admits that he's taught you everything he knows. Suppose further you began training under X and improved further. You could say that you then surpassed your first master, assuming he's done nothing to improve his skills in the meantime.

Chances are that I will not surpass my instructor. I already know that there are things he'll never teach me, and I know that there's a great deal our Soke knows but will never teach except to his successor (if even then). However, I will not go so far as to say it would never happen under any circumstances.

One thing I believe strongly is that, if you train under the same person for a very long time, and you feel you're not growing, you need to move on. There would be times when you feel like that in the short term, but if it feels like growth has stopped, then you've gone as far as you can with that person. But that does not mean you've learned everything they have to teach.

Answer 2

You never know !

This can happen, but not every time.  I would say maybe when the Master is older and the Student is still young but.....That still might not make the diffrents :)

Answer 3

Yes.

This is the master's goal, to have his pupil surpass him.

Answer 4

Over a looooong time.And he wont be able to teach you everything as part of his mastery is realizations he came to himself and you need to experience your own .

Usually such advanced knowledge is only passed on to students that have a steady job a family wife kids etc and are solid members of the community and have trained with him a minimum of 10 to 15 years.

I would say that 95% of "masters" dont have anything worthwhile to pass on after a certain point as they never were taught this knowledge themselves for one reason or another.

As far as sparring goes the teacher should be pushing the student to be better than he is right from day one.

If anyone tells you their style or master has secrets no one else knows tell them to take a hike as that style or master doesn't exist except in someone's fantasy life.

Answer 5

Hopefully this does happen, because it means we have evolution in an art.  If no student gets better than his master/teacher/instructor, then how do we get new masters ?

Martial Artists are artists, they take a framwork and make it their own, if the student has great physical and mental prowess, he surely can exceed his teacher and become a teacher/master/instructor.  

This whole thing is about the evolution of any art over time, if there is a positive slope, meaning students seeing things new and differently than we have evolution, otherwise the art dies.

Answer 6

YES!!

Answer 7

maybe