Can you discuss the beginning of christianity?

Answer 1

Assume that Messiah, his twelve apostles and followers can be trusted.
Assume that Paul's teachings supersede the teachings of Messiah
Assume that nothing can be trusted.
(Matt. 13:24-43)
warning against those coming to steal the flock (John 10:1-16).
"Apostle Paul" is a self-proclaimed apostle and a liar.
The basic question, as I see it, is whether Paul preached the true Messiah.
looking at the book of James as a rebuke of Paul.
Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for YHWH your God proveth you, to know whether ye love YHWH your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after YHWH your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn [you] away from YHWH your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the YHWH thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
Paul claimed that his "signs, and wonders" were a reason one should accept him as an apostle.
2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Where do Y'shua's Apostles rebuke Paul? I reply that the best place to look would be in the writings of John. John had a special place among the Apostles. John's Epistles would be written late enough that confronting Paul is a possibility. (As an aside, Acts is not the best place to look at the positive side of the interaction between Paul and the Apostles, because it is written by one of Paul's followers.)
1Jo 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
2Co 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
John begins with a statement that his relationship was with a flesh and blood Messiah who he heard and followed. Why is this critical?
Paul boasted about NOT getting his gospel from the Apostles. He went to Arabia and had visions.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Phi 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
I have never figured out how Paul could be obeying all the commandments at the same time he was persecuting the early believers.
1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
John is speaking of antichrists as people who "went out from us, but were not of us." Paul had a relationship with the Apostles. Okay, this is were you START to look for an antichrist.
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
John also talked about love. I believe that when Paul said that anyone who had a different gospel was accursed, that he was actually cursing the Apostles. This is not love.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Paul preached a Jesus who "came in the likeness of sinful flesh." The flesh of the Messiah John knew was just the same as John's flesh. This may seem like a minor point, but church historians see it as very significant. Marcion accepted Paul over the Twelve and clearly taught docetism.
We are commanded to "try the spirits." This includes Paul's!
1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
John said love. Paul said "let him be accursed." What if Paul's gospel was not the same gospel that had been preached before by Y'shua? What if Paul's gospel is not "the everlasting gospel" that John referred to in Revelation?
Who are the real Apostles?
In this article I use New Testament passages to argue that Paul redefines the definition of 'Apostle' in his favor. I examine the references of apostle to contrast the views of Y'shua and the twelve apostles versus those of Paul. In another article I do the same with the New Testament references to liar.
The 77 occurrences of the words apostle and apostles in the New Testament are divided as follows. The Gospels have 8, Acts has 29, the Epistles have 37 and Revelations has 3.
The Gospel references are all found in the first three Gospels. Matthew and Mark each have one reference to The twelve as apostles. In Luke's Gospel 'apostle' is used five times in reference to The twelve and once to "prophets and apostles" as spoken by Y'shua (Luke 11:49). This final reference may, but not necessarily, leave open the possibility of a broader definition of 'apostle,' defined in part with resulting persecution.
Lu 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and [some] of them they shall slay and persecute:
The previous verse notwithstanding, 'apostle' in the Gospels is associated with twelve specific men chosen by Y'shua, with Judas replaced by a second Matthew. Acts 1:21-22 specifies that the apostles had witnessed the full ministry of the Messiah. These twelve retain a special place in the future as indicated in Revelation 21:14.
Re 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Luke's book of Acts has the first 22 of 29 references (Acts 1-14:4) referring to the Twelve; then Acts 14:14 reads "Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul..."; and finally the last 6 of 7 occurrences are to "apostles and elders." Luke, the author of the book that bears his name and the book of Acts, was a disciple of Paul. In Acts 14:14 Luke announces two new apostles, other than the original Twelve. This announcement is made without an explanation of the authority that expanded the definition of apostleship, although Paul later claims the authority from "Jesus Christ and God the Father." (Some argue that Paul replaced the apostle James who was killed by Herod [Acts 12:1]).
Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Paul's epistles have 32 references to apostle with at least 16 out of the 32 times Paul using the term apostle in reference to himself. He has four apparent references to the original Twelve listed below. In two verses in Galatians he refers to them as "the very chiefest apostles," which is not in the most favorable light. In Galatians 1:17 Paul makes a point that he did not go primarily to the original apostles to learn of Y'shua. In Galatians 1:9 Paul states that James was also considered an apostle. In another verse, 1 Corinthians 9:5 Paul gives a curious list separating Cephas (Peter) from the "other apostles."
2Co 11:5 For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
2Co 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
Ga 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Ga 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
1Co 9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
Paul's other references to 'apostle' seemingly back Paul's own definitions. First, he alone becomes "the apostle of the Gentiles." Secondly, he defines apostle as one of the "five-fold" ministries to the church. Third, Paul refers to a new set of false apostles.
Ro 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
1Co 12:28, 29 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. [Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles?
2Co 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
It is under these definitions that apostleship becomes quite subjective. Paul was not an apostle to everyone. He did not spend time with Y'shua during His ministry, yet claimed a special revelation of Y'shua. What a boast considering the Twelve had spent 3 1/2 years in intimate fellowship with the Messiah! Compare the description of apostle in Acts 1:21-22 specifying that the apostles had witnessed the full ministry of the Messiah. In 2 Corinthians 12:12 Paul defines the signs of an apostle as other than being with the Messiah through his earthly ministry.

Ga 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
1Co 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
1Co 9:2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
2Co 12:12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

In Ephesians 2:20 Paul seems to claim a foundational place given to the Twelve in Revelation 12:14 cited earlier. Some speculate that Paul laid the foundation of the Catholic and Protestant Churches and indeed the entire New World Order.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];

Leaving Paul's epistles we next come to the book of Hebrews. The author, possibly Apollos, has one reference to Y'shua as "apostle and high priest." Thus, a new definition for apostle. All together, Paul's writings and Hebrews have 33 out of 37 apostle references found in the Epistles.

Peter's Epistles have 3 references to apostle; two refer to Peter and one to "us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour." 2 Peter 3:2 is an important verse in which Peter apparently refers to the twelve apostles. Later in the chapter is the only reference to Paul in the New Testament not written by Luke or by Paul himself. In 2 Peter 3:15 Peter refers to Paul as a "beloved brother," not as an apostle.
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

The epistle of Jude (Yehudah) has one reference to the apostles of Y'shua (Jude 1:17). Jude's reference is to words already spoken; it does not seem to refer to apostles to come in the future. Thus, all four of the references in the non-Pauline Epistles seem to point to one or all of the Twelve.
Ju 1: 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
The final book of the New Testament, Revelation, has the following 3 references: "and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not," "apostles and prophets," and "twelve apostles of the Lamb." What is Yeshua's definition of apostle? Does it include any other than the Twelve? If the true definition of apostle is limited to the Twelve, then Paul and others claiming this office are self proclaimed apostles and thus liars.
Re 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Re 18:20 Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Re 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
From the Messiah's words above, one lie coming from Paul's mouth could disqualify him as an apostle. However, once the Canon was established, it became anathema to question what was written. Now Paul was spared from the scrutiny that the Messiah commanded. If Y'shua's definition of apostle coincides with the twelve that he chose with Mattithyahu (Matthew) as Yehudah's (Judah's) replacement (Acts 1:26), then anyone else making the claim of apostle would automatically be a liar. If this is true, a critical search of these men's writings would also show lies being spoken, "...and hast found them liars" (Rev. 2:2).
Is Paul is a liar?
Re 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Can we find names of one or more of these false apostles in the Scriptures themselves? Who claimed to be an apostle? Who claimed not to be lying? Four times Paul swore that he was not lying. Is that not, in itself, a characteristic of liars? Paul himself stated in Romans 3:4 "Let God be true, and every man a liar."
The four passages in which Paul claims not to be lying, Romans 9:1-2, 2 Corinthians 11:27-31, Galatians 1:20, and 1 Timothy 2:3-7, are printed out below. I examine these passages to see if perhaps some of Paul's lies may be associated with these statements.

Ro 9:1-2 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

2Co 11:27-31 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not? If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

In these two passages Paul boasts of his concern for the church. I wonder if Paul's concern for the church is overrated? Don't those who really care just do the caring instead of talking about it?

Ga 1:20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.

This third passage is in context of the Jerusalem Council. This Council directed the Gentile believers to the heart of the Torah with the four requirements repeated in Acts 15:20, 29 and 21:25. Paul said that they asked only that he remember the poor in Galatians 2:10 and went on in Galatians to downplay the Torah and may have actually cursed the Apostles. For a fuller discussion see Scott Nelson's chapter, Paul, a liar?!.

1Ti 2: 3-7 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, [and] lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

This final statement by Paul that he is not lying comes with Paul's claim to be an apostle. I do not believe that this is a light matter in reference to "thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars" in Revelation 2:2! Again, Scott Nelson has a detailed discussion of Paul's claim versus reality in Paul, the False Apostle.

We must heed the warnings.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.