Can you explain how much of an effect does a high pitch count have on a pitcher??

Question

I'm asking this based on the whole Johan Santana's complete game. Last time around he was given a hard time for not finishing the game (he had 105 pitches through 8 innings) ... and this time he did finish the game with 118 pitches.

Now, media is giving him a hard time for going the distance a non-important game since he was up by 8 runs at the time of the 9th inning, despite the bullpen having worked hard the night before in a 14 inning game.

How much do those 13-15 pitch effect him in the long run???

Say at 105 pitches ... he pitches at 100% his next game

With 118 pitches at what percentage would he pitch ... if there is any difference???

Answer 1

first of all, remember that throwing a baseball is not a natural motion, underhand is the natural motion...so every pitch takes a certain toll on a pitcher's arm, and as he gets more tired the toll is greater because the muscle has already broken down some...that said, 13-15 pitches is not really a huge deal, and i don't understand why the criticism is being directed at santana unless the media knew that he was the one making the call and not jerry manuel...there are a lot of factors that go into consideration as to whether or not to remove a pitcher especially in the nl, such as how many pitches he threw, whether or not he was due up to bat, and since both situations occurred after the 8th, whether it was a save situation or not, since a manager would be much more inclined to let the closer finish a tight game rather than have a starter with more than 100+ pitches go out there for the 9th

Answer 2

I'm sure 118 would affect him a little more than 105, but i'm sure the 4 days rest would leave him fine either way.

I'm sure the issue is that the 105 pitch game was probably close, in which case it is smart not to keep him throwing at a declined performance level. Also in a close game you probably put more effort into it. With an 8 run lead you don't exactly have to strain yourself.

As far as the media goes...he plays in New York....he will be criticized for everything not perfect...

Answer 3

It only takes 1 pitch to change a game.  There may not be a huge drop off in stuff from 105 to 118 pitches, but in those 13 extra pitches he may leave a hanging slider over the plate.  Pitchers like Santana are usually not put on pitch counts by the middle of the season.  The pitching coach and the manager observe how his pitches are looking inning by inning, and usually make the determination based on that and not the number of pitches thrown.  A pitcher may still be getting hitters out, but if he has a decrease in his stuff at any time during the game, it will not take long for the batters to figure it out.  Pitch counts are not just for saving the arms of pitchers through out the whole season, it is also to evaluate the effectiveness of the pitcher during the game.

Answer 4

when you start to get a higher pitch count, you get more fatuiged and it is harder to find the strike zone.  as the other fella said, it only taked one pitch to change the game, so if you arent finding the zone and try to hard to put one in there, you are going to hang a ball and get it hit out.  that happend to Heilman of the mets when he came in for santana.  he had pitched in something like 4 games in a row and with warm ups included thats like140 pitches in 4 days.  not good for your arm.

Answer 5

It just comes down to a persons opinion.  I mean every throw is putting a lot of stress on his arm and shoulder and if you have a big lead and a reliable bullpen, I say use them.  The manager was just trying to save his arm for later in the season.

Answer 6

Theoretically high pitch counts will take a toll on a pitcher in the long run. The more pitches he throws per game, the less effective those pitches are, and the pitcher might not be as well rested the next time he pitches. Keep this in mind too though, the pitch count doesn't take into account the warm up pitches before the game and between innings. Those warm up pitches also add up. The pitcher is allowed 8 pitches between innings, so that adds to the arm strain overall.

For example, if a pitcher goes 7 innings and pitches 105 pitches, his total is 8 warm up throws per inning (56 pitches), plus 105 in game pitches, plus the warm up pitches before the game even starts (25 conservatively). Add them all up and you're looking at least at 188 pitches for a 7 inning game. A complete game will add 16 more warm up throws between innings and approximately 30 more in game pitches following an average of 15 pitches per inning. Add these 46 more pitches to the total pitch count and you have over 230 total pitches for that complete game. Even for workhorse pitchers that's a lot of pitches in one game let alone consecutive games. Eventually these high pitch counts will wear him down and shorten his career if he pitches this much.