Children taking the fathers name ? What else is there ?

Question

If women don't want children to take a mans name, based on the reasoning that it is sexist, what are they proposing ?

It would be even more sexist to give the child her name (It is just as sexist, except lacking the defense that it is merely due to tradition. Whereas men can argue that we just keep doing it, because thats the way it always was, and that the old connotation attached to it has been lost, to merely reverse it would be for no other purpose then sexism. So thats out.

You can hyphenate the names, but then in a few generations your kid could be called Mary Angelina, Davidson- Christophers- Roberts- Davis- McKenzie- White- Willis- Jefferson III ...

From there, its going to get exponentially worse... 16 hyphenated names, then 32... 64...

So whats left... when you have children, you make up a family name ? Spin the wheel of names ? Flip a coin ?

Answer 1

Hmmm, you make a good point! Maybe you could combine the last names, for example; Jolie and Pitt would be Jolitt

Answer 2

Every human society on Earth has a way of naming and distinguishing descent.  Ours is traditionally patrilineal.  Some cultures (Judaism, I believe, is one.  I may be incorrect about that) are matrilineal in distinguishing descent.

People are free to not use the father's last name if they wish, of course.  But I've never understood why there's such hostility over something like this, tbh.  There has to be SOME way of working out what name goes on official documents.

We can't all be like Cher or Madonna.

Answer 3

It's up to the couples to figure out, they can choose who its more important to. Some women don't mind their kids having the husbands last name, and believe it or not, some men wouldn't mind giving theirs up. Not everyone attaches value to their name.

If we both wanted our last name's passed down, I'd hyphenate it then at the right time the kid can choose which one they want to use. I'm close to two guys who had hyphenated last names but when their dads jumped ship and left, they made their dad's name a middle name. Can't think of an opposite case; its probably happened.

You could also get creative and combine the two names. That's getting more popular.

Answer 4

It's their kids it's their choice.

Answer 5

There are many possibilities! :) Perhaps one has a better name than the other? I mean some people have really awful names and ae quite happy to take anothers. Maybe one person doesn't mind about keeping their name, but why should this solely be expected of the woman in a relationship? What exactly happens in homosexual relationships? They probably just take whoevers name they want. Maybe the person who has many siblings can give up their name, as the family name may still be carried on? Some people mix their names together instead of hyphenating them, or perhaps boys could take the fathers name and girls could take the mothers :) It's very curious how many men seem so threatened by the prospect of taking their wives names, personally I'd prefer a man who would willingly take my name, that would make me not mind taking his :) It's sort of a matter of principal for a lot of people I guess.

Answer 6

My mom was not married to my dad. So I have my mom's last name. And if a man knows that I am pregnant with his child and does not ask me to get married for nine months, the child will have my last name as well. The greatest gift a father can give to his child is to love it's mother.

Answer 7

That's one type of sexism I can live with then. Most family names have a lot of significance.

From a more logical perspective, the matrilineal connection is usually pretty obvious, given that women are the ones who give birth. Men really only have a patrilineal claim, hence its significance.

Answer 8

You could have half the children take the mother's last name, and half take the father's last name.  CRAZY CONCEPT!  And if they only have one child, I'm sure they can work something out.  I have 3 brothers, so I'm sure my last name will be passed on enough - I'd have them take my husband's last name.

Answer 9

What's interesting is that Elizabeth Bathory's husband (a hungarian queen) took her last name.

I just thought of pointing that out. I'm assuming her kids probably took her last name too.

Answer 10

Throughout most of human history the children have followed the male side of the family but that being said some cultures do use both.  I would suggest not to worry about it and for each couple to make up their own mind.

Answer 11

This issue really bothers you doesn't it? Apparently you didn't read any of the sources I listed (three times on previous questions like this).

The partriarchal descent of names has not always been that way. The earliest line of descent was female, not male. Read up. Your tradition is not as old, nor universal, as you think.

I also listed several solid, scientific facts about women passing on more DNA (the mtDNA to be precise -- and redundant), carrying and birthing children, committing more to nurturing them and making more personal sacrifices than men. It is not "more sexist" to name children after their mothers. It would be more natural and more in line with reality as it is, always has been, and always will be.

I'm sorry about your creativity problem and I will try to help, though I already listed several alternatives previously. Hyphenation is not ideal. It's a one generation fix. The woman takes the man's last name and adds it to hers. Then the children she carries, births, and raises get his name. She still gets no historical credit for work she did and the genetic contribution only she could make (mtDNA).

The best option is naming everyone after their mothers. It makes the most sense, if you're in touch with reality. Other options are:

Choosing a new name that both partners feel represents their relationship ans passing that on, knowing that their children may do the same. Here, no credit is given to either parent.

Naming sons after the father and daughters after the mother. Breaks up the family and reinforces the idea that women and men should be separate.

Naming daughters after fathers and sons after mothers. Mixes things up a lot.

I prefer to name my children after my mother's maiden name, because we can't even find our great, great, great grandmother's last name in our family's genealogy. She is simply "Person unknown" even though she birthed and raised 18 children. I guess she didn't matter cause she was a lowly female. So I'm starting this tradition by honoring the woman who sacrificed her own dreams so that I could live. My father, needless to say, did not make anything close to that kind of contribution to my life. He is, like so many males choose to be, superfluous.

And now, my previous post which I know you read, responded to and then ignored in your little, insecure brain (This time try looking at the handy sources. You could learn something boy.):

If someone can give me one good reason why children should be named after their fathers, I'd like to hear it. Several men on this post expect from women something they wouldn't be willing to give them. Double standard, eh? Just a bit. The idea that men should pass on their names to children they are not capable of creating comes from the false belief that women were "soil" a mere vessel for the active seed of the father. We now know that this belief could not be farther from the truth.

Actually this question is at the root of patriarchy. It is why women are considered less important than men. Men "can" pass on the family name, women "can't." Let's set something straight here. Women can do everything men can do but men can't do everything women can do. That's a fact. Children are formed of the mother. Sure, both parents contribute 50% of the *nucleic* DNA, but the female always carries and births the child. Right there, before the kid is even born, the woman has done way, way more work to bring that child into the world. This alone should be enough to merit female lineage, but there are more reasons.

Women not only contribute as much nucleic DNA as men do, but they do much more work to create and raise children than men. Additionally, there is something called mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) that is passed down through the mother. Mitochondria are the organelles that allow us to breathe oxygen and use it in the cellular respiration process (aka the Kreb's Cycle) to create ATP which is the stored form of chemical energy that allows us to be alive. If the mother does not pass on this DNA the zygote never even becomes two cells. It has no way to make the energy it needs to live.

That's how fundamentally important women are and that's why men should not be allowed top pass on their names. It's an illegitimate tradition based on a belief that is false. When men can be women, then they can have the legitimate right to pass on their names. Until then they should take their wife's name if they want to have the same name as their kids. Maternal lineage is real. Paternal lineage is a fabrication perpetuated through lies, coercion, bribery, and force.

I know a lot of men are going to be all upset about this. It's interesting how adamantly they want to deny women their names, and their birthright (the historical recognition for children). If a man wants to pass on his name he can invent something, build something, discover something, write something, you know, do something. That's fine. If the child wants to take on the father's name because the mother was absent, etc., then that's fine as well, they can do so at 18.

As long as women are contributing more DNA, carrying pregnancies, giving birth, taking a cut in earnings, and dealing with all the other work of motherhood, then they deserve rightful credit for it.

By the way, the reason so many men will hate this post is because they know that their male privilege is based on the idea that they own "the family jewels" the ability to pass on the family name. In reality that was illegitimately stolen from women and men have no right to it. Period.

    

Source(s):

mtDNA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondri...

tracing ancestry with mtDNA http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/neanderthal...

Matrilineal Succession, the oldest known system of humanity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineal

Matrilineal Descent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrilineal

Answer 12

WHo pays the bills/child support passes on the name.

Answer 13

Seems to be a trend nowadays for people to want change and yet think nothing of the consequences.  It's sad, really.

Hyphenated names are nothing short of ridiculous.

If a matter of taking my name prevents a woman from marrying me then so be it.  She must not have wanted to marry me very much.  Marriage is for women, anyway.

Answer 14

Good question.

Where's the answers?   I'D like to see them.

All I can throw in is if we changed from patrilineal to matrilineal descent, as to what record-keeping the naming provides, it really wouldnt make a difference to anything.

not to men, not to feminism

I'd like the hyphenated name thing, and "its up to the individual"  to go away.

we dont need this for anything

it'll only wreak havoc on the record keeping if people start mixing it up

Besides, what the h**l is wrong with a man being a man anyway?

Just because women need to be NOT OPPRESSED, does NOT mean that men now need to be girls.

Ya know?

The name thing is just silliness

as what you pointed out about the hyphenation problem SHOWS.

I cant see benefit or legitimate reason to do something that doesnt make sense!

You want to change to a matrilineal system I dont care! Pass a law, I wont complain!

But dont just wreak havoc without reason,need or sensibleness.

Answer 15

I agree. Modern society desires to re-write all the honorable traditions without any thought about the consequences. I'm not claiming to know what those consequences are, but I know they are there. I do believe that people have the right to decide for themselves, even when the outcome could cause pain. The bottom line is modern society has no respect for tradition. All these people care about is immediate gratification and self interest. You will not find this happening with religious individuals.

Answer 16

How is it any more sexist for a child to take the mother's name than the father's?

But I agree with you on hyphenated names, that is the only option that I WILL NOT accept in naming any future children of mine.

In reality, there are many more single mothers than single fathers; furthermore, there are few cases I've ever heard of in which there is doubt as to who the biological mother is among multiple possibilities, owing to the unfortunately apt phrase "Momma's baby, poppa's maybe".

You can SAY that the meaning of the word has changed, but that doesn't make it so. It would be better not to use the word at all. But I understand that's not the case with surnames, everyone needs one.

Do you think it's sexist to give a child the mother's last name specifically BECAUSE it goes against tradition and you think it's a statement of protest? It was also traditional for brides to live with their parents and get married at 12 or 13 years of age.

My point is that traditions are only as sexist as you choose to perceive them.

Answer 17

in to-days times women are having more and more children from different fathers and as such really the family unit is slowly diminishing. Do to this really i thank the women should be the name giver because she is the one who has the kids and will have them for the most part. The days of the traditional marriage is dieing out and the father is becoming less of a figure in the family unit as a result. so it is best that the women( mother) pass on the family name. men should frown at this and in all respects to the way it has become we should also shun marriage all together.

well said capone.

i also agree with ojai_dev ......... we should really let the mothers pass on the family name because they are a figure in our lives more so then the father , fact the father should be a term eliminated all to gether. They do not need us as a father or a husband and can move on with life just fine with out us. we are for all intensive purposes expendable and replaceable. i for one shun marriage now and will for the rest of my life ........... and love is but a lie and a tool of manipulation we do not need it it is as silly as fathers passing on there name.

Answer 18

That is something the parents need to discuss before entering marriage and having kids.