Christians, you don't really think of us like this, do you?

Question

I was catching up on my reading over the weekend and came across a few quotes that were... worrisome. I realize that debates between atheists and believers can become quite heated, but I always assumed each side thought of the other as equals, as humans. But this is what I read:

"The fool says in his heart, 'there is no God'. They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good." Psalms 14.1

Atheism is "science divorced from wisdom and the fear of God, which the world has directly to thank for the worst evils of 'modern war'. A.E. Taylor in 1947.

"The man who has the hardihood to avow that he does not believe in God, shows a recklessness of moral character and utter want of moral responsibilty." Tennessee Supreme Court 1871, on why atheists were not permitted to testify in court. (We were forbidden this right in many states.)

All these quotes are of course dated, but reflect an attitude that I am not familiar with. Is this still how you guys think of us? As deviant and hopelessly amoral?

Answer 1

I'm not interested in any of the quotes except the first one.  

The Bible is the Word of God and is 100% true and is the final and only authority on all matters.  Psalm 14:1 is stating a fact.  Like it or not.

Answer 2

I speak only for myself and I think most atheists are deviant and amoral.

Answer 3

Opinions vary, and are largely unimportant. What God thinks is more important.

Ezekiel 33:11

"As I live,’ says the Lord GOD, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die'...?"

God's opinion is a longing for all to be saved, as is confirmed in 2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Our opinion and attitude should reflect the same concern and urgency.

Answer 4

Atheists are people who, whether they like it or not, have the law of God written on their hearts (Rom. 2:15). They are subject to the same laws of our country (and other countries) and they have a sense of right and wrong. They often work with people who are religious and have ethical standards as well as non-believers who are don't.  So they are exposed to all sorts of moral behavior.  In addition, they often form their own moral standards based on what suits them.  Besides, robbery, lying, stealing, etc., can get you imprisoned, so it is practical and logical for an atheist to be ethical and work within the norms of social behavior.  How ever you want to look at it, atheists, generally, are honest, hardworking people.

Nevertheless, some Christians raise the question, "What is to prevent an atheist from murdering and stealing? After all, they have no fear of God and no absolute moral code." The answer is simple: Atheists are capable of governing their own moral behavior and getting along in society the same as anyone else.

At the risk of labeling the atheist as self-centered, it does not serve the best interests of an atheist to murder and steal since it would not take long before he was imprisoned and/or killed for his actions. Basically, society will only put up with so much if it is to function smoothly. So, if an atheist wants to get along and have a nice life, murdering and stealing won't accomplish it. It makes sense for him to be honest, work hard, pay his bills, and get along with others. Basically, he has to adopt a set of ethics common to society in order to do that. Belief in God is not a requirement for ethical behavior or an enjoyable life.  

On the other hand  

Atheists' morals are not absolute. They do not have a set of moral laws from an absolute God by which right and wrong are judged.  But, they do live in societies that have legal systems with a codified set of laws.  This would be the closest thing to moral absolutes for atheists.  However, since the legal system changes the morals in a society can still change and their morals along with it.  At best, these codified morals are "temporary absolutes."  In one century abortion is wrong. In another, it is right. So, if we ask if it is or isn't it right, the atheist can only tell us his opinion.

If there is a God, killing the unborn is wrong. If there is no God, then who cares? If it serves the best interest of society and the individual, then kill. This can be likened to something I call, "experimental ethics."  In other words, whatever works best is right. Society experiments with ethical behavior to determine which set of rules works best for it. Hopefully, these experiments lead to better and better moral behavior.  But, as we see by looking into society, this isn't the case:  crime is on the rise.

There are potential dangers in this kind of self-established/experimental ethical system. If a totalitarian political system is instituted and a mandate is issued to kill all dissenters, or Christians, or mentally ill, what is to prevent the atheist from joining forces with the majority system and support the killings? It serves his self-interests, so why not?  Morality becomes a standard of convenience, not absolutes.

But, to be fair, just because someone has an absolute ethical system based on the Bible, there is no guarantee that he will not also join forces in doing what is wrong.  People are often very inconsistent.  But the issue here is the basis of moral beliefs and how they affect behavior. That is why belief systems are so important and absolutes are so necessary.  If morals are relative, then behavior will be too.  That can be dangerous if everyone starts doing right in his own eyes.  A boat adrift without an anchor will eventual crash into the rocks.

The Bible teaches love, patience, and seeking the welfare of others even when it might harm the Christian.  In contrast, the atheists' presuppositions must be constantly changing, and subjective and does not demand love, patience, and the welfare of others.  Instead, since the great majority of atheists are evolutionists, their morality, like evolution is the product of purely natural and random processes that become self serving.

Basically, the atheist cannot claim any moral absolutes at all. To an atheist, ethics must be variable and evolving. This could be good or bad. But, given human nature being what it is, I'll opt for the moral absolutes -- based on God's word -- and not on the subjective and changing morals that atheism offers.  

  

Answer 5

Not at all JJ.

All individuals embark, at birth, upon a journey of faith.  Some are Christians, some are Jewish, some Hindi, some Muslim, some pagan, some agnostic, some atheists.  

Judging others on the basis of our personal religious beliefs, begs the question as to why an all knowing God would have even allowed other cultures and belief systems to come into existence.

Someone once said "There are stranger things in the universe than we can understand!".  A response was given, "There are stranger things in the universe than we are CAPABLE of understanding."

Everyone has an opinion on this matter.  Let it be so.  Live a good life and truth will find YOU.  Let others do the same.

Answer 6

You should see how Paul describes us in Romans 1, anyone who doesn't look at nature and find it *obvious* that God exists.  Something I've never been able to do.

At the very least the *possibility* of an enormous indifferent universe has always been there.

I'll summarise:

vain in their imaginations,  fools, uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, vile affections, burned in their lust one toward another, a reprobate mind, filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful.

I may have missed one or two.

(I have had a speeding ticket, once, but I get on fine with my parents.)

Answer 7

we do know that those who rejdct God are on thin ice...it doesnt matter what we think but only what God thinks!!

Answer 8

The very first quote is out of the bible and I can not argue with that. Those are Gods words not mine...The rest I can not comment on...

Answer 9

"The fool says in his heart, 'there is no God'. They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good." Psalms 14.1

God says this and yes it is true. There is plenty of evidence of God. people refuse to believe the evidence.

Answer 10

Today the greatest danger to America and its peoples’ freedom is the effort of organized evangelical Christianity to increase its uncompromising grip on the national, state, and local governments and by so doing, the American people. Some denominations are more resolute than others, but nevertheless it is a relentless movement. There are many in America that truly believes that religion and government should be partners and that religion should have a conspicuous influence concerning governmental decisions.

We should be increasingly vigilant of these people.

Answer 11

it doesnt matter what people think of us christian we know who we are and we know we serve one true God...

people liking it or not !!!

Answer 12

i can only speak for myself..but we only have one life and i believe what ever gets you by is your business.your beliefs have nothing to do with mine..we disagree..so what.i have dear sweet friends who don't worship anything but they lead productive..happy lives and do good works..so i am relieved that i can leave any judgment up to the God i believe in..HOWEVER..i don't appreciate being called a robot..or zombie..or a fool it is mean and non productive..let's just love each other like a family and agree to disagree.

Answer 13

They have a right to their opinions.  

Atheists are something else, I got this atheist  lecturing about how I am not being kind in my posting, via email.  Virtually waving his bony little judgmental finger in my face.  In the mean while outlandish far fetched posts from atheists are typically ignored by other atheist or pathetic excuse are made for them.

This is no different from a mom saying that her little Timmy is an angel.  When her little Timmy is a little prick.  Keep being oblivious.

You wanted my opinion, you got it.

___

A.E. Taylor died in 1945.  Your quote says he said that in 1947.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.E._Taylor

Answer 14

I am a Christian. I count many atheists as close friends. Rather obviously, I don't think of atheists as being amoral, because religion and morality are two very different issues. One can be highly moral without being religious. I do not distrust atheists, and to openly malign them without due cause would violate my own moral principles. Sometimes, I attend local atheist meetings, because I learn a great deal when I'm there. I strongly support interfaith dialogue, and also support an open exchange of ideas between theists and non-theists.

Answer 15

"The fool says in his heart, 'there is no God'. They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none that does good." Psalms 14.1

I completely agree with that verse, but you have to understand that Christians don't think of THEMSELVES as perfect, either. All of us deserve to go to h**l; Christians are the ones that accepted God's grace and became His child.  

Answer 16

No, I see you as people that desperately need Jesus but don't know it yet.

Answer 17

Yes, they do.

Answer 18

Yes, unbelievers are hopelessly slaves to sin apart from the work of the Holy Spirit.  

Edit:  We aren't "judging your moral fiber and condemning you to eternal punishment... based on an idea you espouse."  The Bible teaches that all unbelievers are slaves to sin, unable to please God in any way.  It doesn't matter what ideas you espouse, so long as you do not  believe in Christ, do not repent and do not obey His commands.  There is nothing new under the sun.  The same folly has been regurgitated time and time again since Adam ate from the forbidden fruit.  Unless the Spirit convicts you of your sin, giving you new spiritual life, you have no hope of pleasing God.  No one knows, however, especially you, if the Holy Spirit will work in you that way.  So no one can say what will happen to you when you die.  We can only speak of your current condition, which you have yourself admitted to.

Answer 19

There you have it, the full on bonehead position as stated by 'Full Armour of God'. Fear immovable bigots like him, and keep their ideas out of the government at all costs.

Answer 20

Do they, some do yes. I have had a few people say to me that I should not be alive. Even Prez Bush thinks that atheists should not have the power to vote or even be Americans. This is not a secret where they get these views from.

August 27, 1987, "I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic.  This is one nation under God." Bush

*that's big daddy Bush, but the apple doesn't fall far...

Answer 21

some people do think of christians like this but some people think christians are the best thing that ever happened to this world. I personaly think that christians are nicer to people than other people but i am not a christian or an athiest I do beleave in god but i just express it diffrently than christians.

Answer 22

this is the human condition. both believers prior to salvation and unbelievers live in this condition of sin; they are in emnity with their Creator. Why do you think we take the time to discuss such things. The consequences are devastating and eternal. It is out of love for those who hate us that we present the God of the Bible as the God.

Answer 23

I don't think atheists are bad people, necessarily. And there are a lot of evil people who call themselves Christians. But...

I'm just annoyed and bewildered by atheists. I can't believe that they don't believe in anything at all!! I don't have this attitude towards Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, or Buddhists, because they believe in something greater than themselves, which I can relate to.

Answer 24

Some christians project their idea of morality on others. They find it hard to believe someone could be moral without believing in religious nonsense.

Edit: some of the christian answerers on here do more to further the cause of atheism than any atheist could.

Answer 25

who are U

Answer 26

The bible is not God. The map is not the territory.  

Answer 27

As soon as you wrote a question with both "Christians" and "think" in it, you contradicted yourself.

Answer 28

the ture Christians are to mind the same as God, which is wishing that none would perish, but that all would come to repentance.

(II Peter.3:9)

Answer 29

I think "Chris", the first answerer pretty much sums up why secularism is so important.  In this modern day and age where it is quite obvious that the Bible is fiction, people who still insist it is reality need to keep their hands out of our government and the rights of every citizen.

Answer 30

Read many of your sides answers and questions,  I think you will see they prove the point.

Answer 31

As you can see, this is exactly what fundamental US christians think.