Compact fluorescent light bulbs (CFLs) and Hybrid/electric cars. Is it all a green lie?

Question

We’ll eventually be disposing billions and billions of CFL mercury bombs. Much of the mercury from discarded and/or broken CFLs is bound to make its way into the environment get people and animals sick, and give rise to Superfund liability, which in the past has needlessly disrupted many lives, cost tens of billions of dollars and sent many businesses into bankruptcy.

Electric and Hybrid cars = Battery pollution (millions of acid base and harmful chemicals that are NOT recyclable) .

The government makes it sound as if they cared about the environment but it is all a big green lie to get our votes.

In Quebec (Canada), they want us to use CFLs so they can save energy and presumably produce less green house gases. What green house gases? We produce hydroelectric electricity. We produce one of the largest quantities of hydro-electric power in the world (No green house emissions) and we have enough to use and also sell to New-York state and Ontario. I guess they want to sell more and make more profit.

If they really wanted cleaner cars, they should go for Hydrogen combustion engine cars.

They have 0 emissions and no batteries to throw out.

But I guess they would loose lots of money if everyone uses water to run their cars.

The world economy is based on oil consumption and they want us to consume something. They are simply trying to replace the sale of oil with something else (selling batteries and other fuels) and maximize their profits.

Answer 1

It sounds like you're too focused on the end of life disposal of the batteries and CFLs.  While CFL do contain mercury (approx 5mg), it is a very small amount.  Most manufacturers have voluntarily capped this amount and there might be regulation to do so anyways (I can't say for certain).  But say you do break a CFL, the mercury would turn into a gas that is breathable (assuming typical room temperature).  So since mercury would not be in a solid form when landfilled, it would not create a contaminted waste site much less a Superfund site.  As a side note, Superfund has bankrupted businesses but those businesses dumped toxic wastes in an unsafe manner, especially those after RCRA and CERCLA were enacted.  Back to CFLs, if the area where a CFL has broken has typical ventilation, the mercury in the room air would be gone within an hour.  The time average exposure would still be less than OSHA set exposure levels.  Kids are generally the most vulnerable to mercury and mercury does bioaccumulate (meaning is not passed out of your organs).  But this also assumes you cannot recycle a CFL, which you can.  It also assumes that mercury is not already emitted from electric generating stations, which it is.  See the link below for the decrease amount of emissions resulting from reduced electricity usage (assuming a coal plant - not hydroelectric).  

I think most governments are concerned with the environment because it is directly linked to the economy of the country.  It affects healthcare, tourism, industries, jobs, and energy.  CFLs and hybrid are designed to increase energy efficiency.  Less energy needed, less fuels burned.  Energy efficiency is not a bad thing even if you use renewable energy sources to generate your electricity.  The less energy you use, the more you can sell, right?  As for hydrogen combustion cars, they are not used because they are infeasible.  Hydrogen cars have very difficult constraints to overcome such cost, complete lack of fuel distribution network, range of the car, and safety.  Hybrid cars are a intermediate way to immediately reduce GHG by increasing energy efficiency.  As mentioned in prior answers, batteries have and will continue to be recyclable in an economic manner that is not harmful to the environment.  It is not difficult to responsibly dispose of your waste (see Recyc Quebec link below).  If people had an abundent, efficient, cheap, safe, stable and accessible fuel people would use it.  It doesn't have to be oil, there's just not a lot of fuels that meet the criteria mentioned above.

Answer 2

If you are going to rant it would be nice if you knew what you were talking about.

Take mercury in CFL's for instance. Did you know that the single largest source of environmental mercury pollution is from coal fired power plants? The amount of mercury released by power plants is so high that the savings in electricity by CFL's reduces the total emission of mercury from power plants by MORE than the mercury CFL's contain. So even if every single CFL ever used were irresponsibly disposed of in a dump instead of being recycled, recycling is possible by the way, we would still be ahead in terms of mercury pollution. It should be obvious even to you that mercury in a CFL is far easier to control than mercury spewed out of a smoke stack. It is contained and can easily be prevented from entering the atmosphere.

Now let us consider hybrid batteries. There is only one type in common use today, that is Nickel Metal Hydride. That type of battery contains no especially toxic heavy metal pollutants and is entirely recyclable. They pose a fair lower environmental problem than standard lead acid batteries used in conventional cars because lead-acid batteries contain the toxic heavy metal, lead. Lead-acid batteries also happen to be completely recyclable, and the vast majority of them are recycled. The next generation hybrid cars will use lithium ion batteries, which also contain no toxic heavy metals and are also entirely recyclable.

You could not be more wrong.

What is your solution - just more pollution?

Update:

Standard light bulbs are not biodegradable. They are made from metal and glass, neither material is biodegradable. That is just silly. The only thing in CFL's that is biodegradable is the plastic. Coal is not being used less than it used to be. Coal use is at an all-time high and growing.

Answer 3

As for the mercury bulbs, ya...you're completely correct...it's gotta go somewhere. Hybrid cars are the best alternative right now, because hydrogen is more costly (energy wise) to produce and then burn, than it would be to just burn gasoline as it is.

Think about the energy required to make the glass bulbs though...how much longer to the CFLs last? I'm sure the math works out.

The only permanent solutions to our energy problems are those that increase efficiency, or decrease use. Nuclear and hydroelectric plants are more efficient. Other than those two options, using electric cars that run off a hydroelectric power grid is probably about as good as it gets right now.

As for the disposal of batteries...lithium ion batteries can be recycled, as can Sodium Nickel Chloride...no one uses lead acid batteries in electric cars - they can only be discharged to 65% and retain a useful life cycle. The typical electric car's batteries would be useful for well over 100,000 miles which equates to 7 years for your average driver, and battery technology is getting better all the time.

You can take off your tin-foil hat. The oil companies' profit margins are falling. Our democrats successfullly stopped them from building new refineries and digging for more abundant oil sources, so prices will only go up until we run out in a couple hundred years. They aren't trying to maximize profits, they are trying to usher in an era of new technology (unsuccessfully).

Wolf Harper, I would like to talk to you about this over a cup of coffee...

About the forests:  we do need to plant more trees instead of cutting (or worse, burning) them down. However, saying that we are better off because there are fewer coal plants is ridiculous....we are still polluting at a disturbing rate...and how are we going to keep up with the growing population - by polluting more. There is no immediate solution to our energy  and pollution problems. The amount of CO2 put out by factories > The amount exhaled. By a whole heck of allot.

Tungsten and glass is biodegradable? This is news to me. Besides, CFL's aren't the lamp of the future, oLEDs are.

Answer 4

Oh really what are you even trying to say?  Thanks for copying and pasting a huge article and not even asking a question

Answer 5

Some good points made in previous posts, but all and all I agree on both of your parts.

I think as a whole CFL's are better for the environment, as they can be recycled if people would get off their lazy bums and drive them to the centers.  Coal fired power plants are indeed the largest cause of Mercury pollution, hence the reason that it's an awful source of energy (even the supposed "clean-fire" plants.

As for the hybrid batteries, they can be recycled.  Except for the fact that the cost of recycling the batteries is far greater than the cost of producing a new one, hence the reason they will still be disposed of.  Have hope for your Hydrogen car though my friend, as BMW is releasing a hydrogen powered car in the States in '08.

In regards to Superfund, it might be the worst regulation for the environment.  When these companies go bankrupt, that leaves the Taxpayers environmentally allocated money to pay for the clean-ups.  More often the not, the site must be made cleaner than it was before the business came to the area, and sometimes even before man came to this continent.  Remember the Superfund slogan: 90% of all costs are spent cleaning up the last 5%.

While others can complain about your rantings, I am glad to see that you have taken a look at the green alternatives and came to the conclusion every knowledgeable environmental decision maker faces: There are trade offs in everything, and benefitting the environment in one way might cause more harm in another.  That being said, I think we can all agree we are on a path to more earth-friendly technology, and that path involves honest and painful truths.

Answer 6

First, you say that the mercury in CFLs will make people and animals sick, which might happen, but then consider how many people are sick from air pollution.  Many people, especially with asthma, can sometimes have trouble breathing in days when smog is really bad.  Not only will greenhouse gas emissions make people sick, but they have other consequences as well.  For example, the occurrence and severity of droughts in areas around the world is on the rise, leading to food shortages in some of the world's most impoverished countries.  I would say that the energy savings of CFLs greatly outweigh the potential for problems with mercury.

Second, you say that hybrid and electric cars lead to battery pollution.  This might be true, but like I said with the CFLs, the energy savings would greatly outweigh the problem with waste chemicals.  

Third, you say energy consumption in Quebec is no big deal because you operate on hydroelectric power.  However, this is still a big deal for two reasons: First, hydroelectric power is no perfect.  On drawback of hydroelectric power is that it actually can add methane (a greenhouse gas) to the atmosphere. It does this by stirring up the water, which releases methane that otherwise would have been trapped on the bottom of the river.  The second reason power consumption should still be a big deal is this: When referring to hydroelectric power, you say, "we have enough to use and sell to New-York State...".  Well, if every house in Quebec used CFLs to save energy, that would be even more surplus energy for Quebec, which could also be sold to the United States to replace our coal-produced energy.  

I agree with you when you suggest hydrogen powered cars, but they need more research to make them more efficient.  The hydrogen cars right now need energy to produce the hydrogen, and that energy is usually produced by coal power plants.  Until technology makes hydrogen cars more feasible, hybrids are the best bet for energy-efficient driving.  If you really want to save energy, ride a bike.

Answer 7

No, every little bit that people can do will help.  DO YOUR PART!!!!

Answer 8

Hybrid batteries are even more recyclable than regular car batteries, and we've been recycling those for 50 years.  They're also less-toxic than lead-acid car batteries.

Remember a car battery weighs 50 pounds (25kg) and has like a $6 ($8) core charge.  A hybrid battery will weigh 200+ pounds (100+kg) and will have a $200++ core.  They'll ALL be recycled.  No one will throw those out.

As for CFLs, you using CFLs means Hydro has more power to sell to other people, who would otherwise use coal.  Just because you have clean power doesn't mean you should waste it.  

And the mercury in CFLs is less than the mercury put out by a coal plant.  Also the coal plant mercury goes into the atmosphere, whereas used CFLs go into contained landfill, or better yet, recycled.  

As far as selling you things, no.  They'll sell you fewer CFLs because they last a LOT longer.  They'll sell you fewer cars because electric-drive cars last longer than gas cars.