Confessions from the Kennel Club?

Question

http://www.webchats.tv/chats/Petcare/wwwthekennelcluborguk/

Can we now expect breeders to admit where they've been going wrong and make changes to improve the health of pedigree dogs or will they continue to stick their heads in the sand? Should we accept baby steps? or should they be forced to make changes?

Answer 1

I think it's great that they have admitted that line breeding is damaging health and to improve health breeders will need to look at controlled out crossing to other breeds. But they are STILL spouting so many other lies. Half hearted improvements will get us no where. They need to stop thinking about filling their pockets and prioritise the health and well being of pedigree dogs.  I agree with others, we NEED the government to make a stand.

Answer 2

Make it law that no dog can have kc papers unless it is at least five generations with no family genetic link found. Also against law to advertise pups or dogs for sale as that breed unless papers, must be sold as mongrel to stop inbreeding with other blood family dogs breed by money grabbing home breeders. This will stop them as there is no money in it for them.

Sorry if this affects show breeding but the individual dogs health is more important than the shows.

Answer 3

I was appalled watching the recent programme on TV. The breeders seemed more concerned with the specification for each breed, than the welfare of the animals. Deliberate in-breeding continually reduces their ability to right off infection, and many of the requirements for breeds actually amounted to deformities. Give me a happy mongrel any time. For me the perfect dog, is one that is happy and healthy, not one that accords with strict criteria of a particular breed. Breeders should also check the health of their dogs, to avoid their passing on, inherent diseases and weknesses.

Answer 4

Okay, I admit it! You've drawn it out of me! Oh, no...all the thumbs-ups of the ignorant TV-following sheep and thumbs-down to the people who actually know what they're talking about has broken me down!

All of our dogs are kept in horrible, horrible condition! They're left in crates for weeks at a time - they're only taken out to show or breed. They're riddled with health problems and parasites! They're spirits were broken long ago - now they're just mindless zombies who churn out litter after litter, and we win all of our glory through them by showing!

Every puppy we've ever bred (the ones lucky enough to meet the standard, otherwise they were killed) has been riddled with the same health problems as their parents. They have horrible aggression issues because they were taken away from their mother at 4 weeks old to be sold off for a quick buck. If a puppy buyer ever calls asking for advice about their extremely aggressive pup, we just LAUGH and LAUGH and LAUGH!!

WOW. I'm certainly not going to stick my head in the sand any more! That BBC program uncovered the truth about EVERY single breeder and handler out there. EVERY SINGLE ONE. You're entirely right to believe a TV program over actual people! I just can't believe it...you've changed my life today. I'm going to give up dogs and become a stamp collector.

Answer 5

Forced by whom?  The government?  Oh yeah, that will work well!

How about this?  

How about the CONSUMERS educate themselves on the dog they are buying?

How about the CONSUMERS forcing breeders to breed better, healthier dogs?

How about the CONSUMERS actually waking up and stop relying on the government to do their thinking for them?

How about the CONSUMERS stop acting as lemmings and buying the first cute puppy they see in the store window just because Celebrity X has one?

The majority of purebred dogs are healthy.  How do I know?  I have one.  Friends have them.  Co-workers have them.  

The majority of mutt dogs are healthy.  How do I know?  Friends have them.  Co-workers have them.  

The majority of "designer" dogs, BYB dogs and puppymill dogs are NOT healthy.  How do I know?  Because you see it on here every day.

Add: I also find it so very interesting that the people who ask these type of questions never have their e-mails open.  Curious.  Don't have a political agenda you're pushing here, do you?

Answer 6

So many generalisations, such a lack of knowledge, such a knee-jerk reaction to an hour-long hugely biased programme by the ignorant masses.  Not to say everything in the kennel is wonderful, far from it.  But getting the GOVERNMENT to sort it out - like they have sorted out the state of the Country I suppose?  Perlease.   As for the RSPCA - this is the organization I watched on a programme the other day remove two terriers from a 3-dog household because two of them weren't getting on ...... and PUT THEM BOTH DOWN saying there was no way they could be rehomed.  I was weeping - and frankly the presenter was obviously shocked too although he quickly regrouped and spouted the party line.

Sorry, last time I looked this country was, despite all the efforts of this Government, still a free society which means yes, as another poster on here has suggested, it's not for anybody to 'force' anybody to do anything - rather IT'S UP TO THE BUYING PUBLIC to do their own research into the establishment they are buying from.

And before I back off this completely (I've already deleted a post on another thread after receiving 4 thumbs down to my perfectly reasoned answer - THANK YOU) because I'm banging my head against a brick wall, contrary to what was shown in this brief programme, there are any number of breeders who are doing their utmost to improve their stock (given that there's still no such thing as the perfect dog, and that includes Mutts).  You know, environment comes into rearing sound healthy stock almost as much as the genes they are born with ....... ever thought about that!!

Edit - SG Brits - only problem with your post is I didn't write it ..... brilliant!

Answer 7

The thousands upon thousands of GOOD breeders out there owe no apology to the fools who buy unhealthy dogs from crappy breeders.  And neither does the KC.

It is not at all difficult for an educated person to weed through the bad breeders to find a good one, all it takes is the will to do it (and passing up puppies when you know they're not well bred, EVEN when they're "sooooo cute").  

Buyer beware, simple as that.  The only thing that truly changes a market is a change in consumers' demands, and when it comes down to it - this is no different.

The only thing I would like to see ALL kennel clubs do is offer better information that will help buyers screen breeders.  I don't think they owe it to anybody, but I do think it would be a good move on their part.

Answer 8

After seeing the BBC programme, i must admit, i no longer have any faith whatsoever in the Kennel club. And those two guys who run it? they should be ashamed.....and should be welll investigated too.

Answer 9

See, a lot of breeders are going to go on the defensive because they are basically being exposed as "cheaters" and ignorant of the welfare of the animals they make a lot of money from.

Also, it has global implications - it wouldn't be fair for example an American champion dog to come in and win everything when it isn't governed by the same breeding regulations that we want the UK to be.

Also - if someones entire stock is poorly bred, but "champion quality" it would essentially reduce the animals value and their reputation as breeders from exceptionally high to relatively poor.

At the end of the day, it will be the breeders who will decide - its all very well people who don't really care about pedigree dogs making a scene... hopefully there will be enough good, well intentioned breeders out there who come forward. These are the people who can make The Kennel Club change its ways.

Not opinionated by-standers.

Answer 10

Kip's mom is DEAD ON with this one!  It's PUPPY BUYERS here who have all the power.  Not some government agency.  If the PUPPY BUYER demands well bred, healthy dogs, and quits buying dogs from pet stores, flea markets, and out of the paper because they are "cute" or "a new mix", etc., then demand for these dogs will go down.

Funny thing is, if PUPPY BUYERS actually educate themselves, and become as tenacious about the dogs they're buying as they are other things, then the number of unwanted dogs in rescues and shelters will also go down.

Answer 11

If the public stopped buying pedigree dogs & got cross breeds,the Kennel club would soon be in trouble!

There are thousands of unwanted dogs out there,GO GET THEM!!

Answer 12

We need more people like the lady on the TV show Carol Fowler and the breeders need to work with people who want to better the breed not resist change for the better.  One breeder in the show did support the work of Carol Fowler but many did not.  

Answer 13

The programme was good in that it opened up the eyes of people to say that there is some bad breeding going on in certain breeds.

Though i have to say not all breeds are like this and not all breeders will breed from unhealthy stock.

They have highlighted certain areas and only the negative areas of breeding and show lines of dogs.

There are so many breeders out there that do the right thing, but again they weren't mentioned were they.

Yes i agree that the KC does need to do something along with the breed clubs and yes i think baby steps are the way to go and build upon that.

If you do a huge change then yes there will be a problem and certain breeds will dwindle out, which is not what we want.

No real dog loving person would want their dog to suffer from any disease of health problem, its got to be heartbreaking for that owner to see their dog suffer.

Many breeders do test their stock and won't breed from any dog which has a problem, the tv show highlighted those who test their stock and then ignore the results of them.

Its one thing putting a dog in the show with health problems,  but its worse to then use that dog in the breeding programme.

For those Mutts out there, yes some are going to be healthy but some will not be, what about all these so called designer breeds, many are in the pound, you can't say that they are all healthy, many in the pound are from BYB and again do they do all the right checks?? I think not..

Answer 14

I couldn't believe what I saw in the TV documentary last week about the terrible health problems suffered by pedigree dogs and the attitude of  both the breeders and the kennel club.  It's shameful that the Kennel club has encouraged this to happen and has in cases also encouraged the culling of puppies that do not adhere to the breed standard.  I don't know what the answer is but the show bodies and kennel club need to buck up their ideas or there will be no pedigree dogs left in the next 20 years or so - these genetic defects will have wiped them all out.

The same thing is happening within certain cat breeds - heart defects such as HCM are endemic within certain breeds and many breeders still use the studs and queens that come from affected lines - their "breeding stock" has cost them money and they will breed from them anyway.  

It's all about money I'm afraid and it disgusts me.

Compulsory veterinary checks on breeding b*****s and dogs before they are bred and better consumer protection that guarantees money back and vets bills compensation for new owners by the breeder (rather than a replacement puppy) for any health or temperament problem in the puppy might improve things slightly, but this will only work if the kennel club actively supports this and the breed standards are looked at again.

It's also disgraceful that an unhealthy dog can enter let alone win anything in a dog show.

Answer 15

They need to be forced. Like the Caroline Kisco of the Kennel Club said in the video link you've provided, they've known about these problems for the last 9 years, yet breeders are continuing to inbreed and linebreed. They care more about winning shows than they do about genetic health.

I agree with Storm3, there are plenty of wonderful dogs in rescues; puppies, adults and oldies. pedigrees, crossbreeds and mixedbreeds. Why support breeders when homeless dogs are being killed because there aren't enough homes available to them.

Answer 16

OK Lets have a bit of honesty here.

Who actually know  (besides the KC breeders) know what they are talking about? Who can honestly say that they understand the genetic side of breeding? They showed 3 or 4 breeds in that programme, how many breeds are there?. Yes the KC did say they knew of a problem but they were doing all they could but, it was a difficult situation as breeders may break away from their umbrella and they would be powerless to do anything.

I have two line bred dogs who I can trace back to 1946 at the moment. Please can one of you amateur experts tell me what problems they have? No you can't and why not because they do not have any problems. They have been bred to a high health standard and are good specimens as one us a UK show Champion.

It is not all breeders, it is not all breeds.

If you really want something to moan about why not moan abouth the amount of stabbings of teenagers going on in the UK at the moment.

How the majority of the UK youth cannot really string a sentence together either orally or verbally.

Can you see what I am doing I am generalising about a minority of the teenagers today which is what you are doing regarding responsible breeders.  

Come on if you can write and ask questions about the programme content which was very biased against the KC, you must be able to realise thast there are always two sides to a story, there are always opposing opinion on scientific fact. Use your brains not your emotions.

There are some very good breeders on this site who give out very good information and advice, don't drive them away with a witch hunt against breeders.    

Answer 17

Personally after seeing the bbc programme about inbreeding I would say breeders should be forced to make changes. These dogs are being bred to death. If something isn't done soon we will lose the breeds altogether.

Answer 18

How about you get your head out the sand and start acting like the adult you are?

Such a shame many of you anti breeders don't do a darn thing to educate people before they BUY a poorly bred mutt from a BYB/Mill. But when it comes to slamming those who do it right, you all are first in line.

Add-

Beautifully put Kipp as always.

We DON’T need government!!

We don’t need people who don’t know what end of a dog is which to tell us what to do. What we need is EDUCATION!!

Answer 19

I would like more breeders to be held accountable by new owners and kennel clubs, but how would we go about it.  Many owners know that their dogs have faults, but after investing money in breeding stock they seem unwilling to sterilize their investment.

I do know of one GSD club in Australia where the dogs are tested for temperament, I think this is a wonderful idea and do wish that this was compulsory.

Answer 20

Good to see the KC admitting to some truths, but they still continue to lie about other stats, for example they state 90% of all pedigree dogs are healthy - yet they're own research states only 63% of of pedigree are healthy by the age of 5 years, with 37% suffering from inbred hereditary diseases.

They also push for breeders to become accredited breeders. This scheme is a scam with no proper checks in place. They reckon they don't make money from breeders becoming ac breeders, another blatant lie.

The only way things will improve is if the public push for change. We need government legislation.

Answer 21

Get the government/police involved, they should be forced to make changes.

Answer 22

I have qn 8 months old King Charles Cavalier,he has Episodic falling Syndrome,Chiari malformation(Small scull)and Syringamaelia.At the moment he is coping well without any pain,I dread to think what will happen to us in the future.

I am Heartbroken.