Considering how the Mets crashed and burned last night, do you think the "pitch count" is way over blown?

Question

Eight complete innings, totally in control with only 105 pitches thrown. At that point Manuel pulls the plug on Santana and look what happened. Isn't it about time teams took a different approach when it comes to pampering their pitchers?

Answer 1

The pitch count is over rated. If the pitcher says his arm is good, he should play. Don't take a guy out just because hes thrown a lot of pitches.

If they are coming back form injury, thats one thing. Or if they usually stop pitching well around 100 then ok, take them out. But dont take them out just because they've thrown a certain number of pitchers.

Answer 2

Yes alittle but he did throw quite a bit  of pitches

Answer 3

They could always go 6 man rotation and more pitches per start

Answer 4

First off, I always thought the pitch count was a bunch of BS.

Second, I was at the Mets game last night, enjoying myself quite nicely.  That was until Argenis Reyes came out to pinch hit for Santana.   Johan was dominating the Phillies, and especially without Billy Wagner available, there was no reason Santana shouldn't have pitched the 9th.   Well, we all saw what happened, and me and 58,000 of my fellow Mets fans went home quite ticked off.

Why do you bother getting a guy like Santana if you wont let him do what you brought him here to do?

Answer 5

Pitch count is totally overblown. How hard is the pitcher throwing? What's the weather like? How have the innings gone (in other words, are they high stress situations)? How durable is the pitcher? How important is the game?

These are all important factors that managers seem to forget when looking at pitch count. For Manuel to remove Santana last night was ridiculous: he'd had 105 pitches, was cruising for much of the game and is a strong, durable pitcher who was on his normal rotation with the regular amount of rest.

Hopefully Manuel learned something last night but I doubt it. Managers seem to make the same mistakes repeatedly. You don't want to be Dusty Baker who's ruined arms at a regular rate by leaving young pitchers in games for 130 or 140 pitches but for crying out loud, the Mets needed that game, had it in the bag and Manuel screwed it up, simple as that.

Answer 6

I really believe a guy can make as much money as Johan Santana, and then be babied with a pitch count like he is.

Its a joke.

Answer 7

Pitch counts do matter, and if you think they don't then that might be the reason you arent managing.  The question is how many pitches is enough, in some cases 100 pitches is alot for people, and for some they could go easily to 110.  Look at what happened to Kerry Wood, he pitched a crazy amount of pitches early in his career, and it ruined it.  Maybe Santana could have been left in, but it was the ninth inning and Santana put a man on base with no one out.  Now if he would have left him in there and he would have blown it, then you would criticize him for that, but he didn't.  he went to his supposedly very reliable bullepen, and they melted down.  If Billy Wagner was healthy, you would of had no problem with taking Santana out.

Carlos Zambrano was once asked about how he felt during a 135 pitch outing and he said his arm felt like cement.  So pitches do matter.

Answer 8

J-Far took took the words out of my mouth. They brought Santana to the Mets to be there ace pitcher. He was absolutely dominant last night. Why oh why did they take him out. That was perhaps the worst move since Manuel was named manager.

Answer 9

Possibly, but teams should also feel comfortable that they can get at least 3 outs from the bullpen.  They probably should have left him in, but the bullpen gave up 6 runs in the only inning it was asked to perform.  That is the real concern, especially if they want to win games in the playoffs.  You need more than one or two guys in the bullpen that you can count on because you can't count on your starters to always have complete games.  Many starters don't even make it past the 7th inning.