Considering morality is fluid and dependent on culture.....?

Question

is the idea of absolute morality, as upheld by the bible, futile?

Morality is the inevitable christian argument against atheism...Christians will argue that morality is derived from an absolute authority.....but wouldn't it therefore be consistent and unchanging?

As slavery, sexism, genocide etc are very socially unacceptable, shouldn't we dismiss the bible as being any kind of moral guidance...?

Answer 1

Wrong.  Ethics are culturally dependent, not morality.  Morality is based on divine principles that define reality.   Ethics come and go with the seasons.  Morality does not change, only the perception of it based upon the spiritual maturity of the individual.

Answer 2

Yes. It is nothing. It might mean that a person can be what is considered 'good' to others, but it is not equated with righteousness.

So morality is actually non existent in the concept of salvation of God. Jesus called us to trust God, not to depend upon our own idea of what righteousness is.

Answer 3

It is futile considering that bible itself is not absolute in what the believers try to make it.

Answer 4

I think you're preaching to the choir here.  The only people likely to disagree with you are the religious fanatics, whose opinions don't really count due to their inability to look at things objectively.

Answer 5

THE  BIBLE  IS  A  PERFECT  GUIDE  BOOK  THAT  IS  WHY  IT  IS  SO  HATED.BY  THE  KNOWLEDGE  OF  RIGHT  IS  WRONG  REVEALED.PEOPLE  DON'T  WANT  TO  BE  GOOD.THEREFORE  ANY  BOOKS  TEACHING  GOOD  MUST  BE  DESTROYED.THIS  IS  THE  WAY  OF  MEN.SOON  THE  BIBLE  WILL  BE  ILLEGAL.WHY  BECAUSE  IT  TEACHES  ABSOLUTE  MORAL  GOOD  AND  THE  PERFECTION  MEN  COULD  ACHIEVE  WITH  IT.LOOK  MANY  WANT  TO  BE  RACIST  THEY  ENJOY  IN SLAVING  OTHER  MEN.THEY  DON'T  WANT  TO  SHARE  WITH  OTHERS  SO  THERE  WOULD  BE  NO  POVERTY.THEY  LOVE  THE  WAGES  OF  SIN.THEY  WANT  TO  SIN  NOT  TO  BE  GOOD.THEREFORE  IF  THEY  DESTROY  ANY  DOCUMENT  THAT  TEACHES  GOOD   THEN  THEY  THINK  THEY  CAN  WITH  IMPUNITY   DO  EVIL.SORRY   JESUS   IS  RETURNING  AND  HE  WILL  RULE  WITH  A  ROD  OF  IRON  AS  THE  BIBLE  SAYS  HE   WILL.YOU  WILL  UPON  HIS  RETURN  BE  FORCED  TO  DO  GOOD.AS  MANY  WONT  WITHOUT  BEING  FORCED.WHY  IS  THAT.NEVER  MIND  MY  LORD  SHALL  RETURN  AND  I  WITH  HIM.  THANK  YOU  D'S

Answer 6

As an atheist, I strongly believe that people do not need to be religious to have morale, common sense can go a long way as far as morale goes. Nobody needs religion to tell them that murder is wrong, that as a society we should respect and care for people around us, etc.

People are quick to forget that slavery used to be morally acceptable by christians, that there has been countless murders committed in the name of gods (any gods) throughout the ages, and that marriage used not to be about love but about property.

So in other words, you don't need to believe in any god to have good morale beliefs, and just because someone is religious doesn't mean they are better than anyone else.

Answer 7

Morality is NOT fluid and dependent on culture. Morality is established by the absolute authority of God. Morality  IS consistent and unchanging . Just because man has disregarded moral law as set forth by God ,does not negate moral law or change it in any way. Therefore your premise is in error and it follows so is your conclusion. You may dismiss the Bible as you obviously already have , but you will still be responsible for the consequences of your  dismissal.

Answer 8

While we are at it what keeps us from dismissing slavery, sexism, genocide as immoral activities.  Of course the victims are going to cry  immorality but since there is no absolute morality, why should the oppressor care what the victim cries.  This is the the logical outworking of subjectivism.

Do you think people like Hitler or Stalin gave pause as there victims cried for justice?  Now how do you and I can sit here comfortably and say that Hitler and Stalin were absolutely morally wrong while at the same time declaring that there is no absolute morality.

Morality is objective and absolute, otherwise nothing is wrong.

It is cultures that are inconsistent.

If you believe that morality is relative and that there is no God then there is no way to make the Bible seem attractive to you since it is the word of someone who you believe does not exist.

Answer 9

It sounds like you already have.

Answer 10

The problem is that people edit their Bibles. This section and that have been dismissed by some 'divine intervention' of some sort. But only for some, and then the rest does not know. The rules and hoop jumping are enough to make anyone's brain tired. Mine surely gets exhausted trying to keep up with religious theology.

But yes, the Bible is not a good example of a morally sound example of anything. it promotes slavery, canabilism, rape, murder, genocide, the list goes on and on. the one variable that remains a constant is you can do anything, even obliterate a whole nation, in the name of this God.

Answer 11

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/fem02...

^^^ In response to the Numbers 5 argument.

Answer 12

I think the bible makes it plain..that based on the time and that culture, that was the only absolute moral code to follow.

It would be impossible to hold ourselves to many of those codes in this day and time...however, as in all cultures, there are many morals that will always be true....

dont kill

dont cheat

dont steal

etc

etc

Answer 13

It is to the liberal mindset that believes truth and morality to be subjective or relative ... Which is absolute garbage in my book..

God is unchanging... It's man that changes...And yes some of those men are Christians... We have compromised our position which is why things are the way they are.. Also to consider... I have often heard it said by atheist that Christianity is actually to blame for the trouble we have. If that is indeed the case... Why has the world not gotten better since moving away from God in recent yrs instead of worse ? Could it be we are moving away from the answer ? I believe we are.... Hope this helped...God bless you !

Answer 14

I dismissed the bible a long time ago.

Answer 15

Unfortunately you base your conviction on a wrong premise.  It is not morality per se that is fluid, nor is it dependent on culture.  Rather, there is such a thing as cultural morality- the norms and mores of a particular culture which, by its very nature is changeable.  Cultural morality, however, does not preclude the existence of a higher, absolute morality.  In fact, cultural norms must be judged against the absolute to determine whether these are good that must be followed or a form of evil that must be avoided.  Cultural morality is subjective -they differ according to time and place.  Absolute morality, however, is objective, and must therefore serve as the higher criterion.  Now as to this c**p about the bible not being a reliable moral guide.  The bible has always been very clear about the need for man to uphold the Absolute and objective moral guidelines.  If you read the Old Testament carefully, you will realize that over and above the prevailing cultural moral system of the Jewish people, there is a clear thread of realization that there is a higher criterion that must be observed beyond the cultural construct of the time.  God works in history and through history.  He never insisted on any idea that cannot yet be comprehended by a current culture.  Instead, he works  through that culture by insisting on its higher, more absolute dimension until, when the fullness of time had come, he intoxicates us will the fullest of realization.  Yes, in the bible, there is  slavery, sexism, even genocide, but God, the Abosolute Morality himself -gently insists -you cannot just do anything with your slaves and get away with it;  society may be patriarchal, but one can never underestimate their strength and wisdom; and while instances of ethnic cleansing had happened in the holy land and in biblical times, it nevertheless conjures some future time when the moral value of international brotherhood among people of good will here in this planet.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

Answer 16

I disagree with your premise that morality is fluid and state that it is absolute, it is just not practiced absolutely all of the time. Just because what is accepted by the culture changes does not mean that morality itself changes.

Answer 17

Their is one standard of morality with the LORD God you either accept it or reject it. Most of our laws have God's commandments as their basis.

If you had really read and understood your Bible the rules governing slaves were looking after their welfare and there was the opportunity for them to take their freedom.

I think all you are about is poking fun at the things of God and trying to provoke trouble. That in itself is against the whole spirit of the New Testament in particular.

Answer 18

I already do dismiss the Bible as useless in morality arguments- and very frequently cite those reasons.  If ANYONE derives their morality from the Bible, please keep them VERY far away from me...  I value my life.

Answer 19

The bible maybe used as a guide to our moral judgements but how many actually follow them daily. After all at some point we become flawed in our morality daily despite the fact we try to do the right thing.

  Jesus said the body is weak and it couldn't be more truer today then when he spoke it. Especially as we get barraged by false morals from the popular culture we live in now!

Answer 20

Fluid morality is a result of postmodernism. A Christian has written a book on this wherein he relates raising the subject of the Bible condemning child sacrifice. This was in a university where he worked as an academic. Although many regarded child sacrifice as definitely not something one would want to do in the Senior Common Room of a university, they also regarded any attempt to make that a universal moral imperative, binding on all contemporary societies, as an act of Western imperial hubris.

So, atheists, kindly tell us if you would agree that child sacrifice (for any reason) is universally unacceptable and should be made a moral imperative, binding on all contemporary societies. The Bible says it is.

I've just posted this as a question, so you can all chip in with your considered responses.  See  http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...

Answer 21

You make a good point. Out of one side of their mouth they claim the bible is infallible and should be taken literally. Out of the other side of their mouth they claim that we were given a "new covenant" and that some (not ALL) of the law in the OT are no longer valid. Ye olde pick and choose system of bible belief.

Answer 22

We are quite lucky that absolute morality is a fallacy.

Anyone who reads Leviticus and Deuteronomy quickly learns that God's version of morality is not healthy or merciful at all.

Christians who claim God is never changing should read numbers 5 and decide whether poisoning a woman accused of cheating on her husband is a moral thing to do, and ask themselves why they reject Gods original moral code.

Luckily most Christians have enough reason to ignore the law of God and have adopted an allegorical approach to absolve him of his horrific behavior, and excuse themselves from not following it.

Answer 23

the bible was written by the minds of humans

morality comes from the minds of humans

ergo you dont need the bible for morality.  on the contrary, if the bible contains morality it is precisely because humans possess a sense of morality

there are some moral absolutes though

if you disagree, please tell me why it's not morally repugnant to kick an infant to death