Cosmology vs Creationsim...seconds out....ROUND 1!?

Question

If the Universe is merely a few thousand years old as some fundaMENTALists and creationsists would have us believe, how is it that we see the light from stars in the night sky that are BILLIONS of light years (distance light travels in a YEAR) away?

Or did god design the universe so it looks like they are light years away but actually it's glitter glued to a giant black cloth...?

Answer 1

I am not a creationist, but it is quite possible that the Big Bang didn't originate in one spot in space time. There could be multiple "sheets" of spacetime (sometimes called "branes" floating around in an infinitely large multi-dimensional Universe, with everything we see being confined to just one. When these sheets bump into each other, they become very hot and expand, so to anyone living on a sheet today it would look like their Universe began at the point of collision.

Answer 2

You can't "debate" cosmology and creationism any more.

It might be arguable that 50 years ago cosmology was no more than opinions and beliefs, just like creationism, but now, with satellites, the space telescope, and radio astronomy, we KNOW things about the universe which creationism hasn't a prayer of contradicting based on a shred of a speck of a dot of actual evidence.

Creationism is a belief system. It has no more to do with science than writing a novel.

Answer 3

I am an Atheist and believe the oldest rocks on Earth have been dated to approximately 4.6 million years old, just slightly older than creationists.

I don't think we have much chance converting creationists to the concept of stars being billions of light years away. That would blow out their whole argument, poor deluded fools!

Answer 4

So where's the light coming from Brian? Your ***hole? Is it not very telling that the fundies rush in on evlution topics but have nothing to say on this topic (pace Brian who is clearly mad ) Is it because they are out of their depth?

Lastly, Brian, I dont know where you live but I suggest that if at all possible you visit an observatory, speak to an astronomer, view the stars and ask about parallax. Good luck!

Answer 5

You'll get the same answer for all of the proof that the universe is billions of years old.

"God made it look older.. no I don't know why he did, DONT ASK ME!"

Apply that answer to the thousands of other things that point to and prove the earth/universe/solar system being billions of years old.

edit: At the poster above me: AND? We're talking about Creationists here, that doesn't include you, obviously.

Answer 6

Creationists have a lie for every occasion.  The problem is that observational evidence refutes their varied lies such as "tired light" and deep gravity wells.

Answer 7

This is just to create another argument...

Answer 8

God created starlight to mark the seasons by, not to age the universe.  You assume that the light we see in the sky must have left a star billions of years ago, but that assumption is totally unproven.

No, it really isn't proven.  You don't know that the light left a star billions of light years away.  No one knows where the light left from.

That's right, no one knows where the light came from.  You assume that it came from a star billions of light years away, but how do you know that is true?  You don't.  You assume that you can use star light to calculate the age of the universe, but that is not why starlight was created.

trepsis:  I already answered the question that you have so rudely worded:  *No one knows where the starlight came from*.  You clearly have closed your mind to the truth because challenging your understanding of the world so easily provokes you to anger.

As for your suggestion, you know nothing at all about my science background.  I think it is obvious that you need to consult an astronomer.  They will not be able to prove where the starlight came from either.  They make assumptions that they can't prove.  You would know that if you had a science education.

Avlin:  I have studied astronomy in college.  I know exactly how the distances to stars are estimated.  You should look that up.  You will quickly discover that except for the nearest of stars, 100 light years or so, we have no way to calculate the distance *without making unprovable assumptions*.

Alvin:  Like I said, for the nearest of stars we can calculate the distance.  And yes, I do know of those methods.  There is no way to calculate the distance to the nearest galaxy, however, let along the most distant galaxies, without making totally unproved -- and unprovable -- assumptions.

Alvin:  Assumptions like that blinking star we see in the sky must be a particular type of star, and that all blinking stars of that type have the same absolute brightness.  No proof offered, just a wild guess.  Assumptions like the distance to a galaxy is proportional to the red shift of the galaxy.  Again, no proof offered, just a wild guess.

See, I don't use the Bible to try to disprove modern estimates of the age of the universe.  The utter lack of evidence for those ages is enough all by itself.  I offer the Biblical account as an alternative which, even if you don't believe the Bible, offers a estimate of the age of the universe that is just as supportable by fact.

Alvin:  How were the white dwarfs aged to be 12 billion years old without making any assumptions?  Was there a stop watch found on them?  Give me a break.

Alvin:  Right, you assume that the standard model is correct.  No proof, just a wild guess.  Nice try, but give me a break.

Alvin:  A multitude of methods that have are all based on unprovable assumptions come within a magnitude or so of each other, yes.  But there is no reason to believe that any of them are correct.  If you make different assumptions you will get different ages.  It's no surprise that they all agree, given that the people who are making the assumptions believe the universe is old to begin with.  There is zero reason to believe in an old universe.

Alvin:  I've already listed a couple.  Cephid variables are one example.  The assumption that the universe looks the same no matter where you are is another (and thus the idea that the distance is proportional to the red shift).  No one who believes in an old universe is going to make an assumption that would lead to a young universe estimate.  They'd be ridiculed just as you have ridiculed what I have posted... even though you have nothing to base your estimates on.

Answer 9

BRIAN - I don't know which astronomy class you attended, but the nearst start is 4.2 light years away, not 100. Big difference.

Starlight blinking (as you put it) occurs when a planet crosses our field of view in front of that star. It dims the starlight for a time. The twinkling can be effects of our atmosphere on the starlight, and countless other things that can interrupt the light before it reaches us.

Answer 10

I am a Christian but I believe the earth is well over a billion years old.

Edit:  To poster below me.  So sorry my mistake :-)

Answer 11

I have a theory, based on some very old but secret writings, that the world was created a week ago last Tuesday.  The writings were of course created on Creation Tuesday, to look as though they were very old.  I can't let you see them, or I'd have to kill you - or myself.

I really really know this to be true, because the great god Tiw revealed himself to me, and the location of the writings.

Now, all you sceptical unbelievers, I challenge you to prove me wrong!

The point is, you can't.  We believe what we believe for all sorts of reasons.  Some people have a way of looking at the world which involves not reading old books, but examining physical evidence.  They often come to different conclusions from the book readers.  But who is to say who is 'right'?  In fact the curious thing is that the evidence gatherers know they can never be CERTAIN they are right, whereas the book readers know FOR CERTAIN that they can never be wrong.

It's a funny old world, isn't it, and there are some funny old people in it!

Answer 12

This is like chemistry vs. alchemy. There is no debate. Just the truth and people with their fingers in their ears going "nahanahahan can't hear you."

Answer 13

I believe in Creationism in regards to I believe we didn't evolve from apes.  I'm not sure I believe the earth is only a few thousand years old.

Answer 14

No, God created a "mature" creation. The light was already here from the get-go, regardless of how far away the light sources are.

Answer 15

You don't even have to venture into the cosmos, you can find more geological history in the Grand Canyon (millions of years) than is in the Bible which only has 6,000 years of history and then there are the 2,000 years since the death of Jesus.