Could a plane fly if...?

Question

It had a super sized Lithium Ion Battery, and had a upper shell of solar panels, 10 - 12 small wind turbines which came out of the bottom once in the air and also ran on Plant, Olive and Vegetable Oil.

Just an idea to save the planet from Pollution =].

Answer 1

The solar panels would just be dead weight because they produce almost no power for their weight, and the battery could technically work for a short period but it would not work for any sort of worthy flight.

The Wind turbines would not work because it would take more work to drive them than they would recover from the air.

But Biofuels could possible work, but they are not good for the environment, they are just renewable.

I have a feeling that one day they will be using a hydrogen peroxide fuel cell in some aircraft, since they dont require cryogenic cooling like a hydrogen fuel cell, and they produce 6 times the energy of a battery of the same weight. Hydrogen peroxide is also twice as dense as jet fuel, so a purpose designed aircraft could be smaller, lighter, and more aerodynamic.

Answer 2

Yes. The US has flown such a plane, it has a huge wingspan with solar panels all over the top surfaces which drive propellers to keep it aloft. It cannot carry people, they would be too heavy for it. It is intended to loiter around 70-90,000 foot and broadcast TV and internet signals. Theoretically it could stay aloft for months.

Answer 3

Sounds like a pretty good idea until the sun goes down. Night freight operations would definitely take a hit. The problem here is that one would have to be able to store a lot of solar energy in a small lightweight battery. Although the technology doesn't exist today, the practical applications to everyday life outside of aviation would contribute greatly to a "greener" society should this ever come about. I'm guessing that there are probably some clever folks trying to figure this all out as I write this.

The big myth about bio-fuels is that they are clean. There may be a couple or three fewer carbon atoms in the molecular structure, thus the energy released would not be as much as you would find with the traditional petroleum product. (which is REALLY old organic stuff anyway) To get the same amount of work done, you'll have to burn more of the biofuel. Hydrocarbon pollution will still be produced. Agricultural resouces once used to produce food, will be used to produce fuel instead, thereby accelerating famine in a world where the population is increasing exponentially.

When wind, solar, tidal, geothermal, and all of the other energy sources become as cheap and efficient as traditional petroleum products, we will see the shift to those methods. They were around long before the internal combustion engine. The gasoline/diesel engine put them all out to pasture for the time being because of its efficiency.

Answer 4

Lets go from most logical ideas down, shall we.

First: vegetable oil. Those contain about as much energy as current jet fuel does. They would require some measure of chemical alteration and additives so they would not congeal in the tank in the cold upper atmosphere. Cost would be superior to current jet fuel, but since petroleum is trying very much to be less and less finacially attractive, things may change. But between growing food and growing plants for fuel, there should remain a clear priority here.

Wind turbines create drag. Said drag is higher than the thrust required to make the aircraft move forward against it. So, bacially, this is trading 4 quarters to a dollar, except that there is an exchange fee, so you get less than one dollar in the end, and have to consume MORE fuel to operate the windmills.

Solar panels? A 777 totally covered with solar panels would produce enough electrical power to represent 400 HP. The engines produce approximately 1000 times more, so the effect would be negligible. But this is power at high noon, near the equator; fly anywhere else, or any time other than noon, and the solar power drops dramatically, reaching a big fat zero during night. However, the weight of the solar panels would not be negligible, so the net effect is negative.

Lithium Ion battery weight far more for their energy density than jet fuel and jet engines combined; and one would have to find a way of turning the electrical power into propulsive force; such a system would add even more weight. But battery needs charging. Where do you get the power? From a coal fired power plant, of from a windmill/river dam/nuclear power station?

Find a way of converting garbage and agricultural wastes (cellulose) into fuel, and you may have something worth looking into.

Answer 5

I'm thinking it would probably be too heavy.  Keep trying though. Remember no one thought of it before the 1st guy that thought of it!!  Also the turbines they use as back up on aircraft turn hydraulic pumps and serve only for hydraulic backup.  Not propulsion.  If it were as simple as a motor turning an alternator turning the motor, our problems would be non existent!

Answer 6

There is way to power aircraft with solar panels, bio fuel, wind turbines and other renewable energies.

Use all the energy from these sources to create Hydrogen fuel. That way we don't need to lug around 80 foot diameter wind turbines or 5 square miles of solar panels.

Hydrogen fuel is an energy STORAGE not a SOURCE.

It's also very efficient per weight unlike lithium batteries (which are the most efficient power per weight battery there is). Then we can use it to power our airplanes like jet fuel.

As you can see, you still have an environmentally friendly aircraft without having to invent some kind of revolutionary aircraft, as hydrogen should be capable of running in jet engines.

Answer 7

You couldn't use that kind of a battery, but more of a car battery or big truck size battery, those last a lot longer and still give high electric output (hybrids).  I had the same thought that you had with those and it did work on models of a wingspan at 12 feet which was really cool until the wind took it and crashed into a tree.  I haven't had a chance to rebuild it.  My class all agreed that it was too light and needed anothe engine.  

I had a small ATV battery with 4 propeller engines and 3 wind turbines which helped recharged the battery as much as it could when it was in the air.  You might need to put in another ATV battery to help weigh it down without making it too heavy and worthless.  The battery had just about a full charge after about 30 minutes of flight.  But as far as making it big scale to carry passengers that seems impossible but then again...

Answer 8

er, possibly...

Answer 9

no , not enough energy would be created. they still cannot explain how planes the size they are can stay in the air

Answer 10

Nope. I like these easy ones.

Answer 11

Wow you saved the world!!!! Present your idea to NASA, Boeing and Airbus; you're going to be a billionaire!

A giant Lithium Ion Battery: haha! Why don't you use 1000s of AA batteries whilst your at it.

Solar Panels: don't create enough energy to lift heavy aircraft (NASA tried already)

Wind Turbines: How are you going to get it off the ground in the first place? The drag created by the turbines will just counter solve the problem.

Biofuels: also create 'evil' pollution and are not high quality enough of a fuel to drive the engines.

Don't you think this would have been done already if it worked?

Answer 12

Your question is a mixture of good ideas and misinformed confusion.  You should not feel bad about that, because if you want to learn something, you have to start somewhere.

You should present your ideas to your science teacher, who can help you sort through and see which parts of your question are connected to good ideas, and which parts are areas in which you need to learn more.

1.  A "Super sized lithium ion battery" would be too heavy to carry in an airplane.  There have been some experiments with electric powered airplanes, and some modest success, but, on the whole, electrical equipment for producing large amounts of power is too heavy for use in airplanes.

The electric powered airplanes that have been created were too small and light to carry passengers or to be used for practical transportation.

2.  You seem to have some confusion about how airplanes fly and how they are powered.  A trip or two or three to the library are called for.  Ask the librarian for help finding information on how airplanes work.  Also, you can try an internet search on "how airplanes fly," and on "airplane engines."

3.  The "small wind turbines" you mention would use up more energy than they would produce.  Look up "perpetual motion machine" and "second law of thermodynamics."

4.  So far you seem to have been describing an electrically powered aircraft.  Then you mention running on biofuels such as plant extracts, ethanol, and vegetable oils.  This is nearing a practical stage, but requires a completely different kind of engine from that used in the electrical airplane you described in the first part of your question.

In fact, successful flights have recently been made with more-or-less conventional airplanes burning plant-based fuels.  That part of your idea is definitely workable.

So you are starting off from a starting-off place.  You just need some more background learning in the subjects of science and technology.  Your science teacher can help you.

Answer 13

No.

Answer 14

No as many people have said it isn't possible. The battery size that would be needed to power the smallest of planes would be enormous. And Airplane's only add a tiny percent of pollution.

First takeaway cars fossil fuels burning then you can move on to airplanes.

Answer 15

Batteries add weight, and can not produce enough power to propel and aircraft as safely and efficently and as quickly as a modern gas turbines. Anything that add weight, without a safety or by helping making a profit is not desired in an aircraft. Another issued is Li Ion Batteries themselves.  Because of the problems when the short out, once the process starts, it can not be stopped and the heat from them can cause fires and melt aircraft metals, and this is why the transportation of the them is considerd Hazmat for aircraft.

Solar panels would work if the wing was large enough to house them, as in the solar powered wing that was developed by nasa that flew at 60,000' but the downside is that the power produced from these cells would not be enough to power an aircraft fast enough to make it enomocial for todays airlines. Another factor is that because of a flight profile, a constant supply of power from the solar panels could not be guaranteed due to clouds and weather.

Vegetable Oils and the like could  be used, but the like the same problem as with ethonal is that that the amount needed to replace current fossil fuels would end up as a shortage in the food supply, causing food prices to increase, and the cost of this supply of fuel as it currently is about the same if not higher than the price per barrel as fossil fuels.

Another big impact is FAA certification. Anything that has to do with aircraft travel has to be certifed and proven very safe, and reliable, and another factor is readily avaialbe anywhere in the world. The cost of reconfiguring aircraft to burn and use plant based fuel would be a greater expense then contuining to use jet fuel. The availabity of getting this on a global scale also would be a tremondus feat in itself.

Answer 16

If you look at the big picture, there are WAY more cars driving the planes flying.  All the other ideas have been used already, except for the turbines.  The turbines would actually cause the airplane to slow down because you cannot spend more energy then you create.  Basically, the energy lost due to friction of the trubine and drag wouldn't help provide thrust to the plane.