Did I use the wrong oil?

Question

I recently bought my first bike which is a 1988 GSX 1100 Katana. When I got it, the engine was full of fuel and oil. It didn't sit for a long time, but I changed oil to regular auto Mobil One extended life 10w-40. Now I spent 4 hours bleeding the hydro clutch line, and I still can't get the bike to stop pulling when I drop it in first or dying. Any thoughts before I pay the dealer 350 bucks to replace my clutch plates?

Answer 1

was it crashed , why was there fuel in the oil ?  sounds like you bought a junker .  

Answer 2

Heck of a question,,,there's a Bunch of variables involved.

Let's take a look piece by piece.

TYPE OF OIL:

That's NOT the best choice for a bike engine.

And what IS best and what AIN'T,,,,and what Oil is actually WRONG & Harmful ,,,is Not 100% Clearcut either.

10w-40 ANYTHING is considered "safe" as of this point in time..

Reason why is because no "40" rated oil has the excess anti-friction additives which are harmful to many Bike Clutches.

Realize,,,Oil Compounds change more frequently than teenage girls change clothes.

So at any future time that rule-of-thumb about 40w=OK,,,surely WILL change.

The Only SAFE play these days is to use "Motorcycle Oil".

Yeah,,I KNOW all the controversy about that.

I was a Professional Tech for better part of 50 years.

Not to mention spending near 40 in oil biz.

NOT QuikeeLube oil biz.

US DOE "Oil Biz".

The little I know about the subject of Oil has NOT been memorized from internet or bike/car magazine articles.

Point is,,,there's a BUNCH of NON-Bike Specific Engine Oils available,,and some very good choices among those.

But they are NOT OBLIGATED to meet Motorcycle Specs.

Using those carries the Risk of waking up tommorrow only to find your 20 Year Proven Favorite Oil,,,is NOW TOXIC to your bike .

What is Gaurdian Angel TODAY>>> may be Grim Reaper Tommorrow.

All with NO MENTION,,let alone any sort of Warning.

THAT's the BIGGER Problem with using NON-Spec oil.

OK,,,in Your situation,,,,the Oil You Used is excellent Oil,,,and it SHOULD be Fine in your bike.

The "DAMAGE" to Clutches is the Concern of using WRONG Oil.

The Damage amounts to Causing SLIPPAGE.

Slippage ---in turn----CAN cause Clutch Plate Warping to occur from the excess heat.

Your bike is NOT exhibiting symptoms of Slippage,,,,

But it sounds like it Possibly has a WARPAGE Issue.

Hence ,excess Clutch Drag causing a failure to cleanly release/disengage.

Warpage doesnt happen quickly---it Usually takes a while.

But thats very subjective.

All you can count on is,,,"LESS Run Time lessens the probability of slippage & Longer Run time Increases the odds."

On the Big Gixxer,,You can LOOK thru the Oil Filler Hole on Right-Hand engine cover/clutch cover and SEE the Clutch.

It's only a "Peep-Hole View",,,but ya can see Enough.

HERE is a shade-tree,half-azzed "test" for Clutch Warp.

*Put it on CenterStand,,or get back wheel off the Ground.

*Put it in one of the Higher Gears,,4th,5th,,,

*Hold Clutch lever In,,,and spin rear wheel---while observing the Clutch thru the Oil Filler Hole.

The Observation:

It SHOULD spin True with very little run-out or wobble IF the Plates are NOT warped.

There is usually a VERY small amount,,,almost imperceptible.

If the Plates ARE WARPED,,,the Wavy Shape they aquire will cause the Clutch Assy to Wobble badly,,,weaving left&right as ya turn the back wheel.

It's cleary visible & detectable even when viewed thru the Oil Filler hole.

It LOOKS as if the Shaft is BENT.

"How Much?" is bad,or Ok,,is very subjective.

In my experience,,,any amount distinctly noticeable as being a Wobble,,is Too much.

Those Bikes often tend to warp plates over time anyway,,,

So it's POSSIBLE that your bikes probs were a "pre-existing" condition.

???????????

So not knowing the intimate history of the bike,,,it's not fair to condemn the Oill as any root cause.

Probaly Not the oil in any case.

It could be Several things.

.........................................

Other stuff.

Clutch Plate friction material Sometimes SWELLS if soaked in petroleum distilliates,,,such as Gasoline.

Not Normally,,,but Sometimes.

It's more of an occasional Quirk than a certainty.

Modern stuff is not so bad about it.

But when it Does,,especially on Bikes that HAVE sat for a while with Gas-laden Oil,,,it only happens on the "Bottom" part of the clutch which is submerged in the oil.

That creates a LUMP on the Clutch Plates.

Which cause a terrible degree of drag.

Such a condition also produces a Wobble,,same as warped plates,,which is observable thru the Oil Filler Hole.

.........................................

Ok,,,the 4-Hour Clutch Bleeding Marathon is a bit suspicious.

Normally,that's a "4 MINUTE" operation.

Guess I Could just call ya STUPID and proclaim You Don't Know what You're Doing.

That may help ME shorten this rant,,

but wouldn't help You or your scooter much.

If You tried & Tried and Tried Again,,,because ya couldnt get the CLUTCH Operation right,,,,

Then that's ONE Thing.

Can't fault your persistence.

But If you actually Had Trouble Bleeding the thing,,

and had to fight getting it bled to a point where You were satisfied it was bled thoroughly,,

then That is an entirely different matter.

TECHNICALLY,,,"on paper" the Clutch "should" bleed itself merely from Gravity.

---Open the Bleeder,,,Fill the Master Cylinder,,,and Fluid will eventually run through.

Reality & actual practice usually requires some assistance via Pumping the Lever and following normal bleeding Procedures.

Nevertheless,,,The Hydraulic System's DESIGN has a Natural tendency to Self-Bleed.

When the System is at rest,,,Not pulling the Lever--

It's OPEN ENDED.

Think of it as a simple lentgh of hose,,,but PLUGGED on the Downstream End.

Squeezing the Brake Lever introduces a Plunger into the Open end of the Hose.

Once it's IN the hose,,,all is THEN Sealed and any further Lever-Squeeze will Pressurize the Hose.

A system THAT simple will not work for Clutches,Brakes,etc

On the OPEN end of the hose---aka the Master Cylinder---there needs to be a way to Burp Air outa the line at EACH time the lever is squeezed,,,,,as well as a way to REFILL the Line.

Soo,,a M/C uses a Cylinder which has PORTS in the side of the cylinder bore.

When the Piston Fully RETRACTS when lever is Released,,,

The Piston travels back Far enough to Uncover Those Holes.

Line Pressure & FLUID goes "backward" thru those holes and returns to the Fluid Reservoir.

Next time Ya squeeze the Lever,,,Piston moves Forward to close the 1st LARGER Hole--a Refill Hole.

That ensures that the Line is Totally Full of Fluid,,,as well as burping out Some of the Air.

But a short Distance of Piston Travel beyond That,,,theres a 2nd,,smaller hole.

As Piston contines its travel from squeezing the Lever,,,

That FILLED Line's Fluid is vented thru the tiny hole,,,also back to fluid reservoir.

That semi-pressurized fluid carries any tiny remnants of air from the line.

When Piston has traveled Inward enough to cover the 2nd Hole,,,,

ONLY THEN can it begin to raise Line Pressure to apply to the Slave Cylinder and operate the Clutch.

Point of all that is,,,it Keeps the Line Filled,,,Burps/Bleeds itself,,,and REFILLS the Line to accomodate any Fluid VOLUME demand created by wear,,expansion,etc.

"Bleeding Difficulties" are almost Always rooted in Master Cylinder.

If the Ports are Clogged ,,it Cannot fill the Line.

If the Line is NOT filled,,,The Slave Cylinder Travel is SHORTENED.

Resulting in Less-Than Required TRAVEL of the Clutch Throw-Out Mechanism.,,,,in turn Causing Drag from an incomplete release.

More COMMON than Clogged Ports in M/Cyl,,,

Is that the PISTON fails to FULLY RETRACT.

If Master Cyl Piston fails to Fully Retract,,

**It cannot Bleed itself Back to the Reservoir,,because it has not uncovered the Ports

**It Cannot REFILL the Line,,,because it's Intake/Refill Port is Blocked.

When piston travels Forward from "half-back" Position,,,it Forces Fluid OUT of the Line thru the 2nd small hole.

When it finally covers/Close the tiny hole,,,

It does NOT have enough Fluid Volume to apply Full Stroke to Slave Cylinder.

Net Result of all that is 2 fold.

1)System is VERY difficult to bleed

2)The Working Stroke of the Slave Cylinder is Shortened.

Which is the Same Effect as only "Pulling Clutch Lever HALFWAY in" to release the clutch.

There's also a COINCIDENTAL thing which happens during "Bleeding" which makes things worse.

Master Cylinder Travel is Normally LIMITED,,relative to the full length of the bore.

It stops Short of the end under normal operation.

So the M/Cyl piston spends it's life travelling back & forth in "75% length" of it's cylinder bore total length.

When the Bleeder is Opened,,,,,and Lever "Sinks" because there's no resistance to stop it....

That means the Piston has OVER-Travelled further into the cyl bore than it normally does.

Into the area with all the c**p from oxidzed fluid ,,hose particulates,,,whatever....all the stuff which settles in that Never Used area.

That section of the Bore is also Never "swept" by normal piston travel,,,,,so it's Common for it to Corrode,,,be rough,pitted,,,have aluminum oxide growth,,,etc.

It's a HARSH neighborhood,,,Never visited except during bleeding when Piston (And Seals) travel Further than their Normal limits.

When Master Cylinder Piston Seals are in not-so-good condition,,,,Swollen,,hardened,,,whateve...

BLEEDING does nothing to Them except add Insult to Injury.

If a marginal-condition Master Cyl is sticky,,,and Not fully retracting as it should.....

Bleeding operation is all but Gauranteed to make it WORSE.

'Cuz it's cramming the Piston Repeatedly into a "garbage Pile"

There's a couple ways you can get an Idea of whether your M/Cyl is functioning right.

1>>Remove the Clutch Lever.

Temporarilly re-install with just the Pivot Bolt Only holding lever,,,or use a round shank screwdriver to simulate the pivot bolt.

Squeeze lever a few times hard.

Carefully remove Lever again

Answer 3

not sure without seeing it but a dual syage lockup clutch is only 300 bucks, not hard to install

Answer 4

Bad clutch plates don't make the clutch drag. If that's what the dealer claimed, he's a crook. And the clutch would do just fine with Mobil 1 10W-40. That didn't hurt it

. Not to be mean, but if you spent four hours trying to bleed the clutch line you probably aren't very good at it and might want to let a mechanic take a shot. Just not the one who wants to replace the clutch plates.

Answer 5

If you have fuel in your oil, it my be from "Cylinder Wash", this is caused by carburetor leaking into the intake and flowing dow the cylinder into your crankcase.This can damage you wet clutch.

Answer 6

Car oil is the last thing that you want to put in a motorcycle. It contains extra detergents that will seriously mess up your engine and clutch. Take it to your dealer as soon as possible before any more damage is done to the engine.

Answer 7

The oil you used was correct and not the cause of your problem.

The symptom you're describing is from the clutch not fully dis-engaging.

Does the clutch lever feel firm? or does it feel limp during the first half of it's pull?

Bleed the clutch until it feels firm at the very beginning.