Question:

Did Jesus need to die on the cross?

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For 60 years I've heard it claimed that Jesus death was the only way that man and god could be reconciled. The part that has always confounded me is that if god is truly omnipotent and omniscient...how can there only be ONE way? If god is all knowing, he knew in advance what was going to happen. If he is all powerful, he could have changed it to provide for a different outcome. So, why was Jesus death the ONLY way to reconcile? Either he isn't omniscient and omnipotent and Jesus WAS the only way...or he is omniscient and omnipotent and Jesus WASN'T the only way. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

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  1. A bit of a problem with tenses;

    It should have been claimed, if the individual was being careful, that Jesus' death was the only practical way that humans and god CAN BE reconciled (not "could be"). For one, if an individual could somehow lead a perfect life, then that would be a way. However, Christians claim that was a major point of the old testament; no one can live perfectly.

    Additionally, it is not excluded that God could have come up with alternate methods, but it is also not indicated that the alternate methods would have been "better" than Jesus dying on the cross.

    Christian claim that Jesus is the only way that God provided, not that God is unable to provide alternate methods. But as we cannot see all things, we also can't judge if some alternate method would have been better.


  2. Release From Death

    From ancient times, God's prophets have expressed their confidence, not in man's immortality, but in the hope that God would "recover them" from death. (Hosea 13:14) But how could man be released from the bonds of death? Jehovah's perfect justice required 'soul for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth.' (Deuteronomy 19:21) Hence, since Adam brought inherited death to all mankind by willfully disobeying God and so losing perfection of human life, another perfect human had to substitute for Adam in paying over his perfect life, to buy back what Adam had lost.

    The just principle of paying 'like for like' has been widely accepted throughout history. The expression commonly used is "paying a ransom." What is a ransom? It is "a price paid to recover a person or thing from one who detains that person or thing in captivity. Hence prisoners of war or slaves are said to be ransomed when they are liberated in exchange for a valuable consideration. . . . Whatever is substituted or exchanged in compensation for the party is his ransom."* Since Adam's sin, all mankind have been like prisoners of war or slaves, bound by imperfection and death. To release them, a ransom had to be provided. To avoid any controversy now or later as to the fairness of the ransom price, it would be necessary to sacrifice one perfect human life, that is, the exact equivalent of Adam.

    Jesus was equal to

    the perfect man Adam  

      

    However, where could such a perfect human life be found? All men, as descendants of the imperfect Adam, have been born imperfect. "Not one of them can by any means redeem even a brother, nor give to God a ransom for him." (Psalm 49:7) In answering the need, Jehovah, motivated by his deep love for mankind, actually provided his precious "firstborn" Son to become the necessary sacrifice. He transferred the perfect life of this spirit Son, the Word, to the womb of a Jewish virgin, Mary. The young woman conceived and in due course brought to birth a son, who was named "Jesus." (Matthew 1:18-25) The Creator of life would logically be able to perform such a marvelous miracle.

    Jesus grew to manhood, presented himself to Jehovah, and was baptized. God then commissioned him to do His will. (Matthew 3:13, 16, 17) Since Jesus' earthly life came from heaven and he was perfect, he could sacrifice that perfect human life, using it to release mankind from death. (Romans 6:23; 5:18, 19) As he said: "I have come that they might have life and might have it in abundance." "No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his soul in behalf of his friends." (John 10:10; 15:13) When Satan had Jesus killed on a torture stake, Jesus submitted to this cruel death, knowing that humans exercising faith would gain life through this ransom provision.—Matthew 20:28; 1 Timothy 2:5, 6.

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  3. hes so omnipotent he can limit his options to 1

  4. maybe jesus is his doppleganger? and he saw how nice he is so he decieded to change?

    but i know what ur talking about it is ridiculous. the old testament is full of hate, anger, murder, rape, beatings, death, sacrifices, etc... then the new testament comes out and he deciedes ok now that my kid is dead i can be nice.. .whats up with that? how can anyone think that is ok  or even worship it? are humans that evil that a person has to sacrifice themselves for them to change? also for a christian to be good did jesus have to go to such extreme ends to make them have faith? same thing about heaven and h**l do christians have to be scaried into being good? jezz luis.... no wonder im an atheist.

    poor jesus. when i was catholic i always did like him better , jesus always just seemed like a nice guy...  

  5. Here is how it works.

    Every man and woman who is born is born with a sinful nature. It is this nature that makes everyone imperfect, and unfit to be in God's presence in Heaven.

    God sent Jesus, who was not born of Man, so He did not have that sinful nature.  When Jesus was crucified, He took the blame for every sin that was and will ever be committed.  It was something that no one else was able to do, as He was the only person without sin.  You can not pay for someone else's sin if you have sinned yourself.

    Because God is perfect Justice, and because He loves the world, He had to have this happen in order to allow us into Heaven.

    But even though Jesus took the penalty for sin, it did not make Him guilty of sin Himself.  Because of this, He defeated death, came back to life, and commanded His followers to spread the good news to the world so all have the chance to be saved.

    God WAS all-knowing, and we know this by seeing that even since Genesis God gave hints to Jesus' coming and His conquering of sin and death

    In the end, this was the only thing that could happen the save mankind;  God is just, so SOMEONE had to pay for the sin, it couldn't just be forgotten.

  6. Because of transgression in the garden of eden by Adam man became fallen or separated from God. Since we now know the difference between good and evil we are accountable for our choices. Since we sin or don't always chosse the right way we are not able to be in the presence of perfection or God. He desires us to return to live with him and therefore provided a way for us to overcome the effects of sin and that way is through the atonement. Christ volunteered to pay the ransom for us, to satisfy justice and provide a merciful way for us to return to God. Jesus is the only way we can return to live with God. Our acceptance of him and his commandments leads us to be more like him and the "grace" or mercy that he provides through his sacrifice is sufficient to satisfy the bands of justice, to help us overcome the effects of sin.

    A bit of a circle I appologize but I think you can see what I am trying to say. Christ is the only way because his sacrifice was voluntary.

  7. Yes it is necessary. If no risen Jesus, there is no reason for Christianity.

  8. Yes just like all the other prophecies had to happen but I think that prophecie is the most significant.  Everything happened exactly as it was prophecised and surely that is proof enough that he is the son of god.  It's really sad how he had to be crucified since he did nothing wrong but he knew it had to happen and went willingly because he really was the most loving man to walk this earth and wants us all to have forgiveness so we can have salvation.  Plus he's in heaven now at the right hand of god!  

  9. Jesus did pray for another option, but none was provided.

    The question I suppose in short is: Why did Jesus have to die on the cross?

    I will simultaneously answer both theologically and polemically.  God is a God of Righteousness, Justice, Love, Mercy, and Grace.

    Because of sin, God cannot be righteous and have man in His presence (Isa 59:1-2).

    Because the crime of sin must be punished, a Just God will carry out the penalty -- death (Rom 6:23).

    God's Mercy does not desire that any should be punished (2 Pt 3:9)

    So He in Love about it.(Jn 3:16, 1 Jn 4:7-8).

    Therefore by Grace (God's Redemption At Christ's Expense) through our faith He credits the righteousness of Christ to our sinful selves (Eph 2:8; 2 Cor 5:21).  Jesus had to die to pay the penalty for our sin.  A "Catch 22" situation from a purely human standpoint.

  10. Good question!  Sounds like God, the one with all the answers and possibilities thought it more dramatic to kill his own son!

    Your question could be re-worded just a little bit to ask my favorite question - was the flood of Noah the only way to destroy all of the bad people?  I mean, c'mon, you created the universe - couldn't you just make them disappear or something?  And, why did you get mad for what man had become when you should have foreseen this all to occur when you created us!  These things never makes sense to me!

  11. He was killed in hopes that his followers would see him as what he was, just a man.  Instead he was a martyr.  His followers instead of breaking up and going back to their jewish pracitces, banded together and kept on teaching what they had been taught by jesus.

    then when his body came up missing they decided he had accended to heaven to be with God.  When in actually his remains were probably stolen and moved.  Either by the romans or by his followers.  No body leaves the earth........... even if you are a believer.

  12. Yes He had to die on the cross for our sins. What greater sacrifice could God have given than His only begotten son to prove to us how much He loves us?  It is not for us to question God in His Wisdom.

  13. He didn't need to. Even if he were a m*******t, i'm sure would have had plenty of other alternatives.

  14. Read the Noble Qur'an. You'll find your answers there.

  15. Tough question.  I would say in one respect he didnt need to die on the cross for he is God and could have done it a different way. But in another respect He did need to die to fufill the Fathers will and to rescue us from sin.

  16. Jesus had to die on the cross in order to be the savior of mankind.  Remember Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son, and God stopping the sacrifice.  That was because God knew then that he would have to sacrifice his own son.  Why wouldn't the sacrafice of Issac have been the answer?  God gave man free will and he had to find a way to reconcile mankind to him by God becoming a man in Jesus.  Jesus existed from the beginning, he is one with the Father.  Through becoming human in Jesus Christ he had to give the ultimate sacrifice, his life, in a most horrible way.  This was volunteered by Jesus, he was not forced to do it.  He followed the will of the Father without question.  We are reconcilled through the resurrection, not through the death.  Jesus is not dead.  He was and is alive today just as though he were your next door neighbor.  So obey the first two commandments and you are saved.  This was the only way because man chose to disobey God, and only a man Jesus could reconcile this.  Jesus is God and man because only God could do this.  Man is not worthy enough because we are all sinners.  I thank God for his magnanimous generosity to mankind.  

  17. well...here's a thought: there might be a grand plan that hasn't been revealed yet....or God might be waaaaay out of our league to understand...the scriptures might have been tampered with to fit the purposes of the Oh so Mighty Church....ah...too many theories...

  18. God is love.

    Like you and I, He makes His mind up from among the hypotheticals in His imagination - which things He wants to actually take place for the perception.

    The counsel of His will determines all (Eph 1:11).

    His identity, personality and character is to love self-sacrificingly, with forgoance and self-denial - so that He makes Himself the slave of all that He makes... He always does this and so is always Love. Because of this He HAD to choose the crucifixion as the way through which to save His creation from sin and punishment... Like us He had to choose which way to do it - the way that He likes to do it...

  19. Peace and blessings be upon you.

    Well , he didn't die.

    The jesus is one of the God's creatures didn't own for himself to stop the harm when happened to him.

    But he is the prophet of the God , and the God always stand beside who call for him and the jesus called people for the God and the God didn't let them kill him.

    this what the God said in Koran , Surah 4

    [157] That they said (in boast), "We killed Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.

    [158] Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

    and after the God raised him ,he will send him back a he promised his mother that he will taik to us while he an old man as he talked when he just born , Surah 4:

    [45] Behold! the angels said: "O Maryam! Allah giveth Thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Al-Masih 'Isa. The son of Maryam, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;

    [46] "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."

    [47] She said: "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: when He hath decreed a Plan, He but saith to it, `Be', and it is!

    After that ,if you ask about the way to the God,

    After you believe in the God as the one god without partner and then believed in all of his prophets  ; You will find all the ways of the Good lead to the God and his heaven.

  20. In order for the marketing strategy to work Jesus needed to be publicly executed and privately "resurrected".

  21. Well, God could have just snapped his fingers or said a special word to bring about our reconciliation with him -- but he didn't for a purpose.  Jesus came to also remind us how to live (not teach us but remind us) with greater faith in God.  God willed that His Son be the perfect sacrifice to bring to fulfillment the Jews' offering of sacrifice for forgiveness of sin as well as sacrificing as a way to bring honor, glory and praise to God.  He chose this method most likely so we can find value and comfort in our suffering by uniting it to His.  Doing this does indeed transform the inner person over time.  It is only in experiencing my little resurrections here on earth that prepares me to share in the supreme joy of THE Resurrection on the last day.  No resurrection without the Cross.

  22. No, death is the wage of sin. Blood must be shed for atonement. This was done on the cross. Sin brings nothing but death.

    His rules, His way...

    You focus too much on the death and disregard the result. Resurrection. For those who can accept their sins have been paid for gracefully by Him. Admitting one is a sinner before God is the first step.


  23. Sure god is omnipotent and omniscient...

    He just lacks any sort of creativity and imagination.

    "Uhhhh... duhhhhhhh.... Uhhhhhhhh.... Let's kill something... Yea, that's the ticket. Killing something will make me feel better!"

  24. Makes for great drama.

    Jesus' story was told in the same vein as heroes of old whose sacrifice saved many.

    If you know Judaism the reconciliation comes eventually and is brought on by God himself.  No need for a human sacrifice at all.

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