Did the ethanol solution as a fuel alternative turn out to be something of a dog?

Question

...Makes sense to reclaim fryer oil & such, but full-out production using up grains? Maybe corn is better used as FOOD....

Answer 1

I think that the answer to that is still undecided. A true positive benefit is that alcohol can be produced locally without foreign oil. My opinion is that if alcohol is somewhat competitive with oil on a price basis then the positive benefits would be a tipping point in why we should move toward more alcohol use. Note that alcohol is renewable and that oil is not so once we are close in terms of price I would have to believe that alcohol would have the long term price advantage as dwindling oil supplies will continue to drive up oil prices faster than inflation while alcohol prices would tend to stabilize because the supplies could be permanently maintained and replaced.

So is ethanol a dog? I don't think so. I think the fact that it can be there year after year, that it doesn't make us dependent upon foreign oil and that the CO2 that it adds to the atmosphere is recycled back into the plants that were used to make the alcohol makes it a decent long term solution.

Timothy D.

West Melbourne, FL

Answer 2

to produce ethanol from corn is an economical stupidity. better grow it from sugar cane in Brazil, or Cuba, or central Africa, and import it.

Answer 3

Sure looks that way:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_...

"E85, a blended fuel consisting of 85-percent ethanol and 15-percent gasoline, has been championed (by GM in particular) as a viable and green solution to the petroleum problem. Unfortunately, both adjectives are a stretch. You could fill volumes with debate over the benefits and social, fiscal, and environmental costs of ethanol, at least the starch-derived strains, so we won’t.

What you need to know is that E85 reduces the fuel economy of any vehicle burning it by about 25 percent."

"Pres. George Bush recently announced a proposed mandate for 35 billion gallons of ethanol production by 2017, so you’ll probably see more vehicles so equipped, regardless."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080207/ap_o...

"The widespread use of ethanol from corn could result in nearly twice the greenhouse gas emissions as the gasoline it would replace because of expected land-use changes, researchers concluded Thursday. The study challenges the rush to biofuels as a response to global warming."

More on ethanol from Cornell University:

http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Aug...

o An acre of U.S. corn yields about 7,110 pounds of corn for processing into 328 gallons of ethanol. But planting, growing and harvesting that much corn requires about 140 gallons of fossil fuels and costs $347 per acre, according to Pimentel's analysis. Thus, even before corn is converted to ethanol, the feedstock costs $1.05 per gallon of ethanol.

o The energy economics get worse at the processing plants, where the grain is crushed and fermented. As many as three distillation steps are needed to separate the 8 percent ethanol from the 92 percent water. Additional treatment and energy are required to produce the 99.8 percent pure ethanol for mixing with gasoline. o Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTU. "Put another way," Pimentel says, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTU."

o Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline. "That helps explain why fossil fuels -- not ethanol -- are used to produce ethanol," Pimentel says. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol. U.S. drivers couldn't afford it, either, if it weren't for government subsidies to artificially lower the price."

o Most economic analyses of corn-to-ethanol production overlook the costs of environmental damages, which Pimentel says should add another 23 cents per gallon. "Corn production in the U.S. erodes soil about 12 times faster than the soil can be reformed, and irrigating corn mines groundwater 25 percent faster than the natural recharge rate of ground water. The environmental system in which corn is being produced is being rapidly degraded. Corn should not be considered a renewable resource for ethanol energy production, especially when human food is being converted into ethanol."

o The approximately $1 billion a year in current federal and state subsidies (mainly to large corporations) for ethanol production are not the only costs to consumers, the Cornell scientist observes. Subsidized corn results in higher prices for meat, milk and eggs because about 70 percent of corn grain is fed to livestock and poultry in the United States Increasing ethanol production would further inflate corn prices, Pimentel says, noting: "In addition to paying tax dollars for ethanol subsidies, consumers would be paying significantly higher food prices in the marketplace."

Nickels and dimes aside, some drivers still would rather see their cars fueled by farms in the Midwest than by oil wells in the Middle East, Pimentel acknowledges, so he calculated the amount of corn needed to power an automobile:

o The average U.S. automobile, traveling 10,000 miles a year on pure ethanol (not a gasoline-ethanol mix) would need about 852 gallons of the corn-based fuel. This would take 11 acres to grow, based on net ethanol production. This is the same amount of cropland required to feed seven Americans.

o If all the automobiles in the United States were fueled with 100 percent ethanol, a total of about 97 percent of U.S. land area would be needed to grow the corn feedstock. Corn would cover nearly the total land area of the United States.

"Abusing our precious croplands to grow corn for an energy-inefficient process that yields low-grade automobile fuel amounts to unsustainable, subsidized food burning," says the Cornell professor in the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. Pimentel, who chaired a U.S. Department of Energy panel that investigated the energetics, economics and environmental aspects of ethanol production several years ago, subsequently conducted a detailed analysis of the corn-to-car fuel process. His findings will be published in September, 2001 in the forthcoming Encyclopedia of Physical Sciences and Technology.

Answer 4

It still will produce the same amount of CO2 for the same work.

Answer 5

Solar Power could have advantages over Ethanol for the reason food land could be left alone. The idea of the car could be over. The Street car,The Trolley Bus like in San Francisco  could be of use again as well as Solar Power vehicles,Electric Vehicles if comprise a necessity.

Solar Power Socialism could use other technology and end poverty which contributes to Global Warming by forcing people who are poor in African countries to use up resources.

Answer 6

unfortunately yes.  The article I site explains it better than I ever could, but I can also mention that due to corn being used in ethanol production, costs for everything from bacon to milk and bread are increasing!  bad times for my wallet!!

Answer 7

I don't think so. It is one way to reduce our dependence on foreign oil in the short term. If our oil supply is cut off by the Arabs and we have a good supply of ethanol along with our domestic oil supply, we will be hurt less.

Not enough fryer oil to make a difference..

Answer 8

the fact is that it takes more energy to produce ethanol than what you get out of it.