Do Thai assume that directness = being a bully?

Question

Could you give some examples of how you act to get what you need and still not offend the Thai sensibilities.

I know I'm abrupt, its my nature but if I lie back it seem like I get taken advantage of. So how do you both do the Mi pen Rai thing and still get the guy to 1. finish the job, 2. take you where you want to go instead of the custom suit shop or 3. not overcharge you because your a foreigner? You can give your own examples.

Answer 1

That's very much depending on what you want and how harse you put it. The tone of voice really means a lot in Thai culture. Same sentence like: "Why do you do at me?" in a very soft and slow tone can mean do you really fancy going out with me, or on the contrary in a harse and short tone can mean Do you wanna fight?

So if you speak something direct but in a very soft tone, it would be much more appreciated than otherwise. I live in Indonesia before and Java's cultures are very much like Thai's especially for the elites and in a way similar to the Brits. The Thais often say it's quite hot, in order that you open the window, or aircon for them rather than giving you a direct request for an example.

Answer 2

Speaking Thai is the most effective. If you speak Thai then you're on the home team and will be treated like a Thai person when it comes to getting what you want.

Assuming that you cannot speak Thai then you have to use bargaining to show that you are not some tourist who just got off the plane that doesn't know what's what. If you know the correct price of something don't be slow to let the seller know. If they still won't behave then brake-off negotiations and walk away - if they can adjust their price then they will call you back. Obviously, shopping in tourist markets isn't a good place to shop because the seller will probably be interested in finding an alternative foreigner to try to rip-off than doing a sensible deal with you.

Obviously, smiling in Thailand is a big thing so smiling whilst negotiating can bring the price down.

Don't pay until they finish the job - this applies in every country doesn't it?.

Mainly its tuk-tuks that do the tailor's shop thing. That's what they do for a living. I always get taxis when I am not using public transport/driving. Don't take a taxi parked outside a hotel 'coz thats how they operate too (and taking you to dodgy massage places which are much cheaper if you turn-up unescorted by a taxi driver). Genuine taxis can be flagged down in the street.

As a foreigner you are always going to be overcharged until you can speak Thai (and even then they will still try until you are able to give them a mouthful of Thai back in return). Think of it as a service charge for putting them to the bother of speaking English - that's certainly how they will rationalise it. Some short phrases I have been known to use:

lor len mai = you're joking aren't you?

kotort krap, mai chi kon pai theo = excuse me, I'm not a tourist

took quar dai mai = is it possible to make it cheaper?

In answer to your main question, Thai people are prefectly capable of being extremely abrupt. It doesn't mean you're a bully unless you do it when someone is being kind and sweet to you, in which case it does.

[Added: In answer to you further details. - Pom mai chi kon American; pom kon Angrit. Mee bahn tee pratet Angrit. Yang layo, mee bahn tee muang Thai - sam pee - sanuk sanuk. Pom itchar falang mee bahn tee muang Thai. Tongan glap. Sai jai, pom tam narng tee pratet Angrit. Gep staang tee muang Thai yarg mak mak. Chote dee.]

Answer 3

well, being abrupt and approaching w/an aggressive attitude is definitely going to start you heading down a wrong track - - but even Thai and Thai have issues with many of the things above - - I am here full time and see it all the time - - not speaking can add to the confusion and no surprise here, but their minds do not work the same as a farang - thoughts don't connect for them as thy might for you - -

oh - and i don't think they see directness as being bullying - maybe being impolite

best advice is to accept that there are certain things that just are not going to work for you here and go along with their ways even if you do not understand them - sometimes, months later, I find the logic in some of the acts - - though entirely opposed to my ways of thinking - - and yet, you/we come here because there is an appeal to the easy light heartedness that is here too - -

Answer 4

I'm not so sure I can answer you question as much as commiserate with you.

I think being assertive, especially for a woman, yet still having a smile on your face can be helpful. Let them know, I'm friendly, but I ain't backing down.

Thai-time, is one of the most frustrating things to me. Rather it's having something done by a certain time, or meeting at a certain time. It drives me crazy. If you figure out how to get around that, please, let me know.

As far as getting overcharged (that drives me nuts as well) the best thing I've found is to take time and investigate what the Thai price is. Then, when they try to overcharge just don't pay. Move on to the next vendor if you have. I was in Chaing Mai and the "red car" was trying to charge me 100bht for a 20bht ride (at the most). I told him that was farang price. He grinned (can't blame a guy for trying) then accepted the 20bht I offered. Other drivers have gotten pissed off at me for calling them on it, but I figure if we all take the time to educate ourselves on what things really cost  and refuse to let them over-charge us, then it might help curb the practice.

The other thing that I found helpful is to use Thai when ever you can. The more you use, the longer they assume you've been there and the less they try to take advantage.

Ultimately, I agree with the previous poster, although these things are frustrating, part of what we all love about Thailand is the Mai Pen Rai philosophy. I guess everything has it's price.

And if you're in Thailand right now, I'd gladly trade those frustrations for the one's I'm dealing with her in Los Angeles currently.