Do any airplanes these days still use "flight engineers"?

Question

I don't understand. Can somebody please give me an explanation of what use they had? Why they got rid of them? Are there still aircraft around today that still use them?

Thank you

Answer 1

b747 classic aircraft

Answer 2

THANK YOU STRAIGHT ANSWERS for putting it down exactly.  

Who ever got the bright idea to remove the F/E from the airplane... is responsible for starting a chain that has cost lives, billions of dollars, ruined careers and companys... it goes  on and on.  

The THREE MAN cockpit was the safest aircraft in the sky...    the first time we had a problem on the L-1011... all I saw was a hairy arm...  it came up and it went back  it did things.. and the Captain said those immortal words..." just fly the airplane.." They worked the problem... and  when it was settled... the hairy arm came back over the center console and laid down the page from the manual... described the problem, the solution, how it was affecting us, what we were required to do, what we actually did...  and what we could expect on landing at out next stop.

AWESOME.  

Everytime I think of that... I think of SwissAir 111 MD-11 that went down with inflight fire... and I know if they had been in a DC-10 with an Engineer onboard, they would have made it... how many others out there...  it's just a terrible shame.. but that is one that the public will never really get the picture about.

Don't forget that there are a lot of freight aicrcraft out there that still have 3 man cockpits.. those gorgeous DC-8's come to mind. What a machine.

Answer 3

Flight engineers became essential crew members as aircraft systems became more complex during and after WW2.  Look at some pictures of the cockpit of a B-36.  But even much simpler airplanes needed flight engineers to take the workload generated by 4, 6, or more engines, complex electrical systems, pressurization, air conditioning, auxiliary power units, and many other considerations off the two front pilots.

Originally the Flight Engineer was a mechanic, and was not necessarily a pilot qualified in the airplane.  The requirement that the FE be a fully qualified pilot developed as the airlines began to use complex multi-engine airplanes for transatlantic and transpacific flights.  The authorities wanted more pilots aboard these long flights, in case of a crew emergency.

The FE crew position remained essential as jet airliners continued to grow larger and more complex.  The FE had a lot to do, and served as a backup to the pilots during critical phases of flight, working in on checklists and serving as a third pair of eyes and ears.

Recently, more advanced on-board computer capability has made it possible to eliminate the flight engineer position by automating many of the functions.  The pressurization system no longer has 20 switches, k***s, and gauges.  It has a couple of switches, and a computer screen runs auto-diagnostics and shows what the problem is if something fails.

There are both advantages and disadvantages to the crew reduction, but for the most part it is correct to say that safety was greater when the company was paying that extra crew member.

As to your original question:  Yes, there are thousands of older airplanes still flying, and there will be for many years to come, that still use flight engineers.

Have a nice flight.

Answer 4

Flight engineers are great - I still fly with them in B747-100/200.  

The only reason they were eliminated in newer aircraft was to save airlines money (smaller payroll), even though it was detrimental to flight safety.

Duties of the flight engineer in a typical civilian operation include aircraft preflight, preflight computations, engine start, control of aircraft systems (fuel, hydraulic, pneumatic, electric, air conditioning, pressurization, APU etc) in normal and abnormal conditions, support of both pilots in traffic watch, radio work etc, postflight inspection.

Having a 3rd person in the cockpit increases flight safety in both normal operation (good engineer often finds traffic outside before either pilot spots it) and in abnormal situations (troubleshooting of mechanical problems is easier and safer with 3 people than with two - one pilot flies, while the other together with engineer diagnose the problem and agree on course on action (in two pilot aircraft one pilot flies while the other troubleshoots - less back-up and much higher chance of making errors)

Western-made non-military aircraft that still use them - B727, B747-100/200/300, DC-10, DC-8, A300 (some)

Answer 5

Before technology could be used to compile flight data into a few simple screens they needed to have a bank of guages and systems to monitor.  This was obviously too much work for the pilot to do so the need the flight engnieer.  Technology has now made it easy to monitor flight systems with out 100's of guages.  This saved the airlines money because it was one less guy to pay.  There are still a few 747-200's and 727's and a few other planes running around out there that need a flight engineer.  It's pretty much all stuff used for cargo and some of the older miltary equipment.  John Travolta's 707 requires one.  All of these will be phased out in the next ten years or so except for a few special planes such as the An-125 and An-225.  Some of that old Russian stuff still uses them also and it will propably be a little longer before it is phased out.

Answer 6

I ended my career as chief pilot on an executive 727 and loved the beast. It and the mustang were the two classics I always wanted to fly. Lucky me, a former boss had owned a mustang D called "minuteman" and my last boss wanted a bigger airplane than his gulfstream so we bought the three holer from Leona Helmsly. The airlines don't need one now ofcourse but our flight engineers were a&p certified and highly experienced wrenching on Boeings so they made life like gravy for me on the road. Eventually we began carrying an "engineer" on the Gulfstream too just because it made sense and they were already on the payroll. And having that third set of eyes in the cockpit served us well on many occasions.

We had one guy I named hatchet jack. Jack was in his sixties and drank skydrol for breakfast instead of coffee. One day we were running through our flow checks in the cockpit when I heard Jack utter a obscenity. He rustled around for a minute behind my seat looking for something and stormed out off the flight deck cussing under his breath. We were already running late and the boss's limo was expected any minute so I was becoming less than my usual happy camper self.

A few minutes later the first officer and I heard and felt a banging coming somewhere from under the floor a few feet behind us. Dan, in the right see looked at me,

"What the **** is that?" he asked.

"I don't know but I’m gonna find out. No time for this ****" I said as I walked aft. The aft air stairs were down as usual since corporate aircraft rarely have a gate for boarding pax. The banging was clearly coming from the front and as I was walking forward under the wing, I saw Jack's legs sticking out of the nose gear well. With one final bang he bent and emerged from the gear well carrying the crash axe.

"It’s ok now cap. No pressure regulator valve’s gonna **** up my dispatch reliability record. Let’s get back to work before the boss shows up." as he walked back toward the airstairs.

I just shook my head wondering how I ever thought I was in charge around here. He’s been hatchet jack ever since.