Do ideas of traditional masculinity create crisis in men?

Question

and If men do not change, then gender justice is simply impossible?

Please read whole paper at:

http://www.xyonline.net/Mensrolesingender.shtml

by Dr Michael Flood teaches in Women’s and Gender Studies at the Australian National University.

It is very interesting to read.

What do you think about his points of view?

Answer 1

Masculinity crisis ? Gender justice ?!? What color is the sky on your planet o.O ?

Answer 2

yes, men are constantly trying to live up to ideas of masculinity. This can be seen everywhere, from calling each other g*y to buying a sports car.

Answer 3

"Profeminist men typically conduct their efforts in alliance with women and women’s organisations. Ideally, they consult with women’s groups, do not compete for funding or other resources, and build strong lines of communication and trust (Funk, 1993: 125–126, 132–134)."

Given that limited resources are set for things in any country - how can they achieve fairness in anything - for example DV.

"I move now to the central question of this session: what is men’s role in achieving gender justice? First of all, men are part of the problem, but they are also part of the solution."

Mmm this article only talks of men being the problem.

He doesn't talk much about the society around them, and implies that only men could be. One of the more famous examples of that being BS and a reinforcement from many woman on traditional roles -  'men should ask for dates' and 'men should pay for it', this isn't from all women but a very significant number of them. With out them tackling all sides it renders it short sighted and BS.

I also ponder as to why he isn't crediting any the men who have changed or the overall picture people have about them. Which also supports it further - and its not always mens views that create that.

"It is not surprising therefore that some women are nervous about men’s participation in gender issues."

The closed minds, closed doors approach here has been around longer than the movements that came to be challenges - that he now cites as the reasoning for this.

Being fairer would have prevented that, rather than a highly defenisive resistance.

I'm more inclined to agree with the other guys there is a general lack of masculinity in society - it has been pushed out and degraded. Its now a dirty practise to encourage it, I'm almost surprised people aren't jumped on for using the word. A lot of aspects that are percieved as assigned to it (aren't definite parts of it, and are also viewable in femininity too, else where do we get the term matriarch) are emphasised.

Answer 4

MEN need 2 B FEMINIZED !

Answer 5

This article, despite it's male authorship, is heavily feminist based.

It asserts that men always are the ones who are lacking and need to change, and that feminised men are the aim of our feminised society in Australia.

With no respect to this point of view at all, I say BOLLOCKS!

Gender justice must not be just about men making concessions, changes and being gradually politically corrected.  The idea that we are fundamentally wrong is a totally vile concept, whether it be discourse on genetic maleness or social male roles.  Such talk about women would never be allowed (and quite rightly), but this anti-male drivel is spewed out with such seriousness that it disgusts me.

Eohan is totally right in his assertions too.

There is never any thought that maleness can be either beneficial, natural and worthwhile in modern Australian society.  Such ideas about femininity would never be tolerated.  Men are not faulty drones to be socially engineered to some feminist pattern and held as being lesser people than women.

Sorry, Flying Horse, this article is short on realism, is deeply sexist, makes flawed assertions based on a profane social construct, and asserts, shamelessly, that women have every right to demand that a man change, yet he can in no way even dare suggest that she is wrong.

Such misandrist tripe, served up by a man too.  this "Doctor" need to grow a pair.

Thing 550:  What about the need for women to change their behavious to acheive desored outcomes, or is it only the men who are wrong?  This is just a cop-out: women see a need for changes, so it is up soley to the men to change.  Sounds all a bit one-sided.

EDIT2

Thing550: Men have changed to meet the modern world, which we had a role in creating.

Read my answer, I did not say that women have not changed, I make a claim that there is a feminist view that, when it comes to relationships and in society men are expected to do the adjusting to how women want us to be.  

No man is permitted to expect women to change, much less say it publically: you assert the right for women to change entirely on how you see it, whereas men are expected to changed just to suit women.

Answer 6

No

Answer 7

I have never read so much that ment so little.

It reminds me of the time i went to  see Sen. Jose Mendoza speak at my college, all he did was regurgitate every single Democrate party line for an hour, so by the end of the hour it was a very pretty sounding but intellectualy empty speak.

Same here.

It was nothing but unsubstatiated hyperbolic claims about the oppression of women.

Granted, it was an extremely limited venue, IE the speech had to be short, but in trying to say everything, he realy has said nothing

But to answer you question yes, they do

The belief that you should be able to work and provide for your family when your cronicaly unemployeed leads to a crisis

The idea that you should be a loving father and role model to your son when creates a crisis when the courts give the mother sole custody after a divorce and your allowed to see him one week end a month

I don't think these are particularly bad things, they are very important roles when living in a family

Answer 8

EDIT 3: Found a link with a pic. Dr Flood doesn't look like he lives in his mum's basement, spending his days angry with the world:

http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/ssmac/staff/U...

EDIT 2: Notice how the angry male posters are resorting to "he doesn't have any b@lls" type insults. Interesting, since that's something they complain about when others say it. When a man proposes that guys get active in changing things, they don't like it any more than when a woman says it. Even a feminist. Gives a little insight into what's REALLY going on here, I guess.

EDIT: Owains, woman HAVE changed. We've met the challenges of the modern world and keep on meeting them, even when we haven't liked it much. I guess you haven't noticed?

~*~*~*~

Very interesting, particularly his comments around the need for men to change their behaviours to create the changes they want to see.

The fact that so many responses demand some sort of return to a standard of masculinity that *used* to exist actually shows that they are unwilling to change and unwilling to consider the need to do so.

The same quandary the dinosaurs had, I guess ~ the world is changing but I won't. That'll show 'em.

Excellent article, thanks so much!

Cheers :-)

Answer 9

My view of Australia is that it's an extremely feminized country.

My married male friends there lead very odd lives, they work long hours and when they are at home, they look after the children, do house work and tend to their gardens, they quite literally never stop while their wives work an eight hour day and put their feet up when they return from work.

The media of full of misandrist messages, the male is almost always shown to be an idiot in advertising.

There is a woman's magazine with a section entitled mear male and some of the content is less than respectful.

The incitment of violence laws were passed two weeks before Greer was publicly telling women that they should smash the windows of Holden dealerships because of an "offensive" ad. Of course, these laws were for muslims, not Australian women.

The DV system appeared to be very much of the attitude that women were the only victims, never did I see literature relating to female on male violence.

So of course men an boys are going to suffer.

What men need to do is stand up and tell feminized society where to go.

The problem lies in feminist social engineering and sexism.

In Mexico, a woman can have a man arrested and jailed for not sleeping with her, or calling to much.

An Indian man can be jailed for a backhanded remark made to a female family member.

In Australia a man will be taken out of his home and arrested on the strength of his partners word, no getting the other side of the story or statements from witnesses.

In UK a woman can now murder her partner and get away with it.

Men don't need to change, women need to stop thinking that, thats what feminism is isn't? A wife who thinks her husband needs changing.

Telling half the population that they were born wrong, rapists, evil or whatever, was a mistake. Men need to be proud of who they are. Not tricked into being unsure by the feminist propaganda machine.

I think Michael has a male brain on the female end of the spectrum. Which is fine but, he has made the mistake of thinking the world should change to suit him even though he is in a minority.

"All men should be like me" says Michael.

Answer 10

No, its the LACK of traditional masulinity that creates crisis in men.

Answer 11

Ronnie is right, most men today are wimps. They let society dictate to them how they should act. Most "modern men "couldn't survive in the wild or in a hostile situation like a war.

Answer 12

Ronnie is correct. The problem is not to much masculinity, but a lack of it. I can't tell you how disheartening it is to read questions where young men ask questions like "what does it mean to be a man", or "what is masculinity". I'm so glad I grew up with a father who gave me my manhood. He demonstrated Godly masculinity. Because of his efforts, I have become a good husband and father myself.

Answer 13

Well I relate to much of what he is talking about, although I've not done  that much gender justice work.  I've only done some fund raising and volunteer work for a local battered women's shelter.  I became pro-feminists because there is a long history of violence and mental abuse against the women in my family.  

I have mainly focused on environmental (eco-feminist) activism and I've found two different reactions from people who know about my interest.

A lot of women are indeed suspect of any man who attaches the label feminist to himself.  Some think just as the author said that there are alterior motives. There are still feminist who do not make the connection between animal rights, environmental integrity, gender justice, and humanitarianism. They scoff, because they feel that wetlands, old forest, and animal rights shouldn't be given as much priority as human gender relations.    

Fortunately most of the feminist I have close alliance with share most of the same beliefs and goals as I.  Therefore, we are not at odds.

Most of the male adversion comes from the  feeling that a feminist male is a hapless suck-up attempting to ingratiate himself on women by taking up their causes.

But that isn't  the main cause of resistance.  If you really think about it much of what has been celebrated as masculine bonding activity in the past has now been condemned.  The images of men hunting game, chopping down trees, drag-racing, spear fishing, and killing in battle are no longer considered the picture perfect view of masculinity.

This is the true crisis.  How do you be a man and gain respect when what was once revered as manly is now considered barbaric?

What activities and pursuits do you engage in to express your masculinity in  a positive way?    If you're not willing to let go of those things from the past you will find it hard to adjust to a world that demands a greener, kinder, gentler man.

Answer 14

The thing that most creates a crisis in people is when they are ordered to act as their gender dictates, not as their individual minds dictate. If a man is less masculine than his counterparts, why should they care?