Do mitochondria violate the laws of entropy?

Question

Here is an answer, from a creationist, to one of my questions:

The mitochondria converts raw materials into usable energy within the cell. It violates the laws of entropy and contradicts the very nature of "evolution" because the very FIRST step in the process is to USE 1 or 2 units of energy. Evolution would have stopped right there and gone no further in this process.

Is that true?

Answer 1

Creationists have long tried to use thermodynamics to try to "disprove" evolution.  What they forget (or don't understand, or do understand but intentionally misrepresent) is that we live in an open system with regards to energy.  The sun provides us with energy input.

Yes, it is impossible for more complex life to evolve if we did not have this input of energy because we would gradually lose all available useful energy to entropy.  And, yes, the mitochondria would have been unable to evolve if there was not this input of energy for the same reason.  But, the sun supplies us with continual energy to meet these demands.

And, don't forget that respiration, especially anaerobic, evolved well before mitochondria.

Answer 2

No

Answer 3

If you have studied enough physics biology and chemistry to have heard of entropy and mitochondria you will be able to answer this one for yourself.    The system must obviously need a source of energy, (otherwise it would break the second law of thermodynamics) - so you should be looking at the source of the energy at the top end of the process.  (hint - consider sunlight and chemical energy).

Answer 4

Hmm ... this Creationist sounds awfully confused.  He (or she) is not clear whether they are refuting the very function that mitochondria perform, or the "evolution" of this function.

In other words by focusing on the first step in the process, and saying that this "contradicts the very nature of evolution", it sounds like he thinks that the first step evolved, then the second step, and so on ... and since the first step uses energy, it's evolution contradicts the laws of entropy.  This is, of course, an absurd understanding of evolution ... but interpreting evolution in an absurd way, and then "refuting" it by saying "see how absurd it is", is the bread-and-butter of Creationist arguments.

So it sounds like yet another Creationist who, armed with a bare-bones, High School level understanding of things like mitochondria and the laws of thermodynamics, now thinks he knows enough to spot a glaring hole in evolution that has somehow been overlooked or ignored by hundreds of thousands of scientists with PhDs for over 150 years.

Answer 5

Simple answer - they work therefore they obey the laws of thermodynamics.

The answer you have been given looks like some vague gathering of relevant words. It is so incomprehensible to be worthless.

So, the mitochondria use some energy to initiate a process, like some kind of activation energy in a chemical reaction. So? Most chemical reactions require such energy even if the net transfer is to lose energy (eg exothermic) why would evolution prevent this

Answer 6

All non-spontaneous processes occur at the expense of spontaneous ones.  Creationists apparently can't read, because any introductory biochemistry text covers the energy harvesting processes of cells, including the thermodynamic aspects of them.  THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS TO THE 2ND LAW.  Cells do not violate thermodynamics in any way.  Creationists would do well to receive an education before writing trash like this.