Do scientists ever investigate "religious miracles" such at this one?

Question

If so..would you please post a link to it? I'd like to know what they said about it. Thanks. What do you think of it..as a scientist or skeptic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Fatima

Answer 1

Some things can not be examined, its just a case of being there and witnessing it for yourself.

Answer 2

I wasn't there so I can only comment.

Every single person there went out of his way to be there at that time.  They were present because of their belief (and for the sick, their desperation) in the miracles of the Virgin Mary.  So you already have a crowd very receptive and friendly to the possibility of a miracle.  I can only speculate many people there were in a state of religious frenzy so when they were told to look at the sun to see the Virgin Mary they reported seeing a vision.  Were they open to the suggestion of the moment?  Were they motivated to tell a little fib so as to be in on the miracle?  Were they just blinded by looking at the sun?  Who knows.  All I can say is if the sun zig-zagged in Portugal it should zig-zag everywhere else too.  No one except those present to see Mary appear reported any zig-zagging sun.

In the end the whole thing was experienced by only Catholics, promoted by only Catholics and was consistent with all things Catholic.  In other words, all of it was contained within an existing belief system.

Answer 3

I suppose if they have free time to investigate on their own and they have an interest in it (i.e., perhaps the scientist is a Catholic), then why not. However, I'm not aware of any scientific investigation regarding this religious legend. Like much of religion, there is dogma and faith but few facts that can be verified.

In contrast, there has been scientific investigations into religious things that can be tested, e.g., the Shroud of Turin.

EDIT: What's the scientific explanation? I'm not exactly compelled by the visual accounts of people who are staring at the sun for long periods of time. They saw some atmospheric phenomena (a sundog, atmospheric haze, etc.) and with fried retinas they imagined they saw all sorts of things.

Answer 4

Sure they do. I know Joe Nickel wrote about that in one of his books - I think it was 'The Real-Life X-Files'.  The problem is, none of these 'miracles' have been repeatable.  If something were out there breaking the laws of physics for all to see, that would be one thing.  But kids claiming they saw something isn't really worth investigating, and mass hallucinations?  Again, needs to be repeatable.

Answer 5

Miracles are considered religious in themselves.  You can't prove them or disprove them just like you can't prove or disprove the existence of God.  Scientists are too busy finding cures for cancer and answers to our energy problems than be bothered with such nonsense in the first place.

Answer 6

Yes we do.  The problem is that "miracles" are usually shown to be some natural phenomenon...something out of the ordinary maybe, but still entirely natural.  Once this is shown to be the case it is quickly dropped.  (One big problem with scientifically verifying so-called miracles is that in science we absolutely require repeated measurements of the thing being studied--so we CAN verify it.  One time, odd, events don't lend themselves to this kind of investigation).

Unfortunately, this makes a lot of people , well, let's just say very "unhappy".  They WANT the thing to be a "miracle" and they insist on having the scientific community go along.  When we don't, they become hurt, angry, and even derisive.  It's unfortunate, but sadly it's very common.

Answer 7

i think these people were overcome by the heat and were seeing things there are no such things as miracles things just happen for no reason.

Answer 8

I saw a documentary on that one many years ago, but didnt remember much about it.

I have no idea if this particular one was really studied closely, but I have come across research done on Marion Sightings.

One particular study that comes to mind was a group of people who mingled and interviewed a group gathering for a predicted marion sighting. Everyones perception of what had happened was different. Some thought they had already seen the virgin mary, some thought they were looking at her, some never saw her. The sightings, visions and perceptions were all really all mixed up. If someone started interviewing with leading questions, no doubt you would have a story like the fatima story.

This is a form of mass hysteria.

edit: The swirling sun was a planted suggestion. Not everyone reported seeing the same thing.

edit: the sun thing didnt happen. 1) If someone really believes they are going to see something, they will see it. 2) If they didnt see it, they arent going to admit it, because it means they arent a good catholic. Think about the emperors new clothes.

Answer 9

there was a fence post at a sydney beach which looked like the virgin mary, many people came an looked at it and believed. but some just said it was just part of the wooden railing. unfortunately some vandals destroyed it.

I couldnt find a pic, but u might be able to see it in the link.

Answer 10

yes...  look up http://home.sc.rr.com/bmarkovsky/RecentW...

Barry Markovsky and Shane Thye are two that I can think of who specifically investigate group identity and influence.  You might contact the website and see if you can find further info

I'm uncertain what I think about it just yet.

Answer 11

I do not know why visions or mass hallucinations even need to be repeatable to be believable.   By their very natures they cannot be repeated upon demand.  

Perhaps the type of " scientific tools" used need to be different.  

As neither a scientist nor a skeptic but as a human being, I think that all those people saw something significant.   Whether what they saw was the Virgin Mary, I do not know.  A lot of our experiences are interpreted through our cultures, and those kids lived in a very Catholic culture.  

This is not the only instance of religious experiences of this kind that have been reported.   I prefer to keep an open mind and say this was something but I don't know what.

Answer 12

They do whenever they get a chance.For example the Shroud of Turin was investigated a few years ago.By carbon dating,it was proved a fraud.Something by the way the Catholic church itself agrees with.The problem is even with that people are unconvinced.They want a miracle and they will have it,no matter what.