Do the ends justify the means.?

Question

I believe the AGW theory has some very serious flaws, though the coming out of facts will take some time given the current investment in the theory. Still, do you think it is OK to promote a lie, if it has positive effects on the behavior of men pertaining to their environment?

Answer 1

C'mon people.....most folks lie, not because they want to, but because society often gives them no choice, " THe truth always hurts."! as the saying goes. Many times people tell the truth with devastating consequences, so gimme a break.!

Politicians lie, Police and judges lie, corporate execs. lie, and no one lies more than religious zealots and preachers.! In fact I don't know anyone on this Planet who hasn't or doesn't tell a fib or two sometimes.!Let's face it people...we live in a very corrupt and deceptive World... Does the end justify the means.....in some instances...Absolutely.....if the outcome is for the good and benefit of all concerned and prevents additional pain and suffering.!

Answer 2

White lies (or just lying in general) is a reality of politics.  That's the way things are, but it's not a good thing.  

From time to time in my work, I've come accross technical people who have been quacks and have no idea what they are doing.  I have a strong dislike for junk science in general as it has corrupted our court system and put many people in prison who shouldn't be there (Linda Chaimberland for example as it turns out a dingo probably did take her baby and the forensic investigators convinced a jury that the rust treatment on her car for a pool of human blood).  

It seems that the junk scientists in our society are untouchable and they can all kinds of harm and get wealthy in the process and never face any adverse consequences.

Answer 3

I haven't seen any positive effects yet in my country.  It's brought out the worst in the scumbags who caused the problems in the first place.

Answer 4

The AGW theory and the IPCC report that has been called the most thoroughly peer reviewed scientific paper in the history of science can hardly be called a lie.

You make the common mistake of assuming that the fix for global warming and the other ways we are destroying the environment are somehow bad.

I would argue the opposite, that these things will ultimately improve our economy, while also improving our environment.

Here's how.

http://www.setamericafree.org/blueprint....

A Blueprint For U.S. Energy Security

And this recent book, says the same.

http://www.earththesequel.com./

"Krupp and Horn have turned the doom and gloom of global warming on its head. Earth: The Sequel makes it crystal clear that we can build a low-carbon economy while unleashing American entrepreneurs to save the planet, putting optimism back into the environmental story."

Michael Bloomberg, Mayor of New York City

"Like nuclear plants, coal plants tie up great gobs of capital during their extended construction periods. For the sponsors of such projects, the shifting sands of economic uncertainty can spell financial disaster, as many a utility learned the hard way during nuclear's fiscal meltdown."

"In contrast, solar, wind, and conservation all have shorter lead times, a fiscal advantage not sufficiently appreciated, especially in uncertain economic environments like the present. So in addition to loving these options for being "green," planners can also love them for being "just in time."

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/3/...

And this explains what we are in danger of missing out on, by stalling on public policy to promote alternative energy.

Abu Dhabi  to invest in solar power plants

"Abu Dhabi is not content to just sell you the oil that fuels your SUV; now its going to sell you sunshine to keep your lights on and power your electric car when the internal combustion engine goes the way of the buggy whip. Masdar, the oil-rich emirate’s $15 billion renewable energy venture, and Spanish technology company Sener on Wednesday announced a joint venture called Torresol Energy to build large-scale solar power plants in Australia, Europe, the Middle East, North Africa and the United States."

"Torresol initially will invest $1.2 billion in three solar power plants to be built in Spain but the company is targeting the global “sunbelt” for future expansion. Masdar will take a 60 percent ownership stake in Torresol with Sener holding a 40 percent stake. A Torresol spokesman declined to reveal the dollar amount of the investment. A prime market for Torresol will be the U.S. desert Southwest, where companies like Ausra, BrightSource Energy, Solel and Abengoa Solar are competing for contracts with utilities PG&E (PCG), Arizona Public Service (PNW) and Southern California Edison (EIX). Torresol potentially could shake up that market, given its very deep pockets and ability to independently finance billion-dollar solar power plants."

The venture is just the latest move by Abu Dhabi to control what Masdar CEO Sultan Ahmed Al Jaber described to Green Wombat recently as “the whole value chain” of renewable energy, from research and development to manufacturing silicon for solar cells to the large-scale deployment of green technology.

"The irony is too rich to leave unsaid: A leading oil producer invests billions in carbon-free energy while a leading consumer of fossil fuels - the United States - continues to subsidize Big Oil while while offering only tepid support for green technology. It is inevitable that climate change will foster the rise of renewable energy - the only question is which countries and companies will profit from the new energy economics. It is entirely possible that the U.S. will trade energy dependence of one kind - on Middle East oil - for another - on Middle East and European solar technology - in the era of global warming. It’s no coincidence that most of the solar energy companies with contracts to build utility-scale power plants in California and the Southwest have overseas roots - Ausra hails from Australia, BrightSource was founded by American-Israeli pioneer Arnold Goldman, Solel is based in Israel and Abengoa is headquartered in Spain."          from Green Wombat

"The United States could lose more than 116,000 green collar jobs and forgo $19 billion in green tech investment in 2009 if Congress fails to extend two tax credits crucial to the renewable energy industry, according to a new study."

"In recent months, PG&E has signed deals for more than a gigawatt of electricity — enough to light more than 750,000 homes — with solar power plant developers. Such power purchase agreements can take more than a year to hammer out and the permitting and construction of a solar power station can take another three to five years."

"The solar thermal industry is in its infancy but utilities like PG&E (PCG), Southern California Edison (EIX) and San Diego Gas & Electric (SRE) have signed several contracts for solar power plants and negotiations for gigawatts more of solar electricity are ongoing."

"The first solar power plants in California won't go online until around 2010 but the construction and operation of those projects are expected to create thousands of jobs. Like the PV industry, solar thermal companies are dependent on the investment tax credit to attract the big money it takes to finance the construction of billion-dollar power plants. The loss of the investment tax credit would hit California particularly hard."

"Navigant projects an even bigger crash for the wind industry should the production tax credit expire, with installations falling from 6,500 megawatts to 500 megawatts in 2009 with the lose of 76,800 jobs. The wind industry has been continuously buffeted in recent years as Congress has allowed the production tax credit to expire repeatedly only to resuscitate it. In the past, the expiration of the tax credit has resulted in a 73% to 93% drop in the wind market, according to Navigant."

"Representatives from Silicon Valley tech giants, Wall Street investment banks and utilities signed a letter sent to the congressional leadership late Wednesday urging the long-term extension of the 30 percent investment tax credit as well as the production tax credit for the electricity produced by solar, wind, geothermal and other renewable energy systems. Among the signers urging action by March 1 are executives from Google (GOOG), Hewlett-Packard (HPQ), Applied Materials (AMAT), Credit Suisse (CS), Wells Fargo (WFC), venture capitalists Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers and utility San Diego Gas & Electric, a subsidiary of energy giant Sempra (SRE)."

http://blogs.business2.com/greenwombat

Posted by Todd Woody

"I'd put my money on the sun & solar energy.  What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that."  Thomas Edison, 1931

Answer 5

No, the ends never justify the means, and we have the Law of Unintended Consequences to punish those who feel differently.

Most people who lie are hiding something.  Why promote behavior based on a lie when the truth should do just fine?

Answer 6

The only people are are doing anything differently are the regular people, which has a pretty small impact. Big corporations are still churning out as much pollution as they always did. Yeah, its wonderful that people are using reuable shopping bags, but thats hardly making a big impact. So does the end justify the means? No, because it isn't much of an end.

Answer 7

If you have such a big ego and think yourself incapable of being wrong, yes.

Answer 8

No, it's not okay to promote a lie.

If promoting "global warming" where for other reasons, these reasons should be promoted and marketed on their own.

The main thing here is that global warming is not "a lie", it's unfortunately true, and the question should instead be aimed towards those promoting that global warming isn't happening. Do the ends justify their means? Which is just short term and economic interests.

Answer 9

Yes, they do.  The socialists know this and are using every means at their disposal to see their goals become reality.  Pushing AGW is just one of them.

http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/e...

Edit:  You can thumbs down the truth all you want, it doesn't change the facts.  The close of WWII found the allies victorious.  Germany, Japan, and their peoples stood trial for their actions.  The winners did not.  The British fire-bombed Germany.  The US dropped the a-bomb on Japan, twice.  Women and children were the psychological targets.  Hundreds of thousands died.  I don't condone it, but it was very effective....and no one paid for it, because it worked.

Another example:  By all accounts found to date, most of my ancestors can be traced back to Great Britain.  Great Britain's peoples saw wave after wave of invaders through the centuries, each wave bringing death, destruction, and their own genetic code with them.  I would not be here today if not for all of that pain and misery centuries ago....

...all totally justified, and worth it!

Answer 10

Theoretically speaking, no, it's not okay to promote a lie even if it has positive effects.

However, AGW is clearly not a lie.  Even if you think the theory has serious flaws (which I certainly don't agree with), it's not "a lie".

It would be a lie if the scientific experts believed the theory were seriously flawed and pretended otherwise, but that's simply not the case.  That you think it's flawed does not make it flawed, nor does it make AGW a lie.

Answer 11

Ask the mainstream media; they've been doing this sort of thing for years to promote their ideas on a number of hot-button issues.  Come to think of it that same mindset is behind what Russia and China and Iran, etc, all do to "educate" their people.

Answer 12

No it does not, to be effective being honest and direct is always the way to go. However you will get blasted by some because the truth is not a  easy pill to swallow even though it is good for all of us.

Answer 13

The ends can never justify the means.  Instead, the means used always color the end result achieved.

Answer 14

You are proceeding from a false assumption.

And no, the ends never justify the means.

That type of thinking is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Answer 15

No.  Neither do these organizations.  But they all say global warming is real and mostly caused by us.

The National Academy of Sciences, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the American Institute of Physics, the American Chemical Society, the American Geophysical Union, the American Meteorological Association, etc.

Because this is proven scientific fact.