Do those considering adoption ever worry about the increased possibility their adopted children may kill them?

Question

I'm guessing it's a thought that rarely crosses the minds of adopters. There's a new movement afoot for the media to neglect to mention one's adoption status in crime stories.

I was reading David Kirschner's site, while it's a phenonemn I've been well aware of since delving into the study of losses surrounding abandonment and adoption; I don't believe these statistics are even on the radar of the general public. Here's a quote;

"Paul Mones, a defense attorney and expert, who wrote the book When a Child Kills, reports that adoptees are 15 times more likely to commit parricide (kill one or both adoptive parents) than biologic children"

Answer 1

I remember that episode of "Friends!"

Chandler was convinced that his almost adopted son would try to kill him with a shovel! He was so freaked out that he nicknamed the kid "Shovely Joe!"

But, seriously . . . no, I don't worry about it.

Answer 2

Sad, but not so unbelievable, is it?

Here's another amazing statistic:

"Joel Norris, in his book, Serial Killers, notes that "many serial murderers were raised by adoptive parents or caretakers both within and outside of their biological parents' families." The FBI estimates that of the 500 recorded serial killers in U.S. history, fully 16 percent were adopted – an incredible statistic, considering that adoptees represent only 2-3 percent of the general population."

It's from the same article:

http://crimemagazine.com/07/adoptionfore...

It's written by Dr. Kirschner, who while counseling many, many kids during his 30+ years as a therapist, started drawing the conclusions on his own.  He calls it ACS, or Adopted Child Syndrome.

Some articles about it:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.ht...

http://www.newbusinessnews.com/story/010...

http://www.angelfire.com/or/originsnsw/c...

http://www.uoregon.edu/~adoption/topics/...

http://www.adoptioncrossroads.org/

Answer 3

hmmm??? i'd need to read the report to offer a fully informed opinion.

and regarding stats:  it doesn't matter the "number or rate of an occurrence in the population." it's considered statistically significant when the probability of the observation (the # of akids who kill parents) is statistically higher than the probability that it will happen by chance (# of all kids who kill).

Answer 4

Yeah I never even thought of killing anyone let alone my parents. A person clearly has issue if they want to kill their parents whether they are adopted or not.  I suppose if the child has been abused but abusive happens to both bio and adopted kids.

Nor would i worry about this if i one day adopt.

Answer 5

This might have been true years and years ago (50 or so) when couples would go after children just to work for them. Back then there was alot of abuse but times has changed and even non adopted children can do that awful things. So no I don't think that it would matter right now.

Answer 6

Wouldn't that be "patricide" instead of "parricide"?

Just wondering if it's different because of adoption status. *rme*

Answer 7

I have five adopted children and I believe if I treat them with respect and raise them in a loving environment, I shouldn't have to worry about that.  Biological children commit crimes too, i don't believe it has anything to do with being adopted or not.  If your child has issues surely you'll notice before it escalates that far out of control.

Answer 8

you are ridiculous, disgusting AND offensive- congratulations!

Answer 9

This question in no way violates the TOS of Yahoo! Answers.

It is a valid question and as an adoptee I am not offended in the least. You would think the adoptees would be more likely to take offense towards a question about their own predispositions...

Adoptees make up an astounding percentage of killers, both of their parents and other people. It is not really hard to believe. Take a child and add together maternal loss, lack of identity, shame for being a b*****d, constantly being told they should be thankful for their life, never seeing anyone who truly resembles themselves, being told not to seek out their family,  fear that since one person gave them away everyone might plus heaps of other "adoptee" feelings  and can you really say that a high percentage of them won't act out inappropriately?

Not all adoptees will feel all of these things but they are all feelings of actual adoptees. You need only hit a few adoptee blogs to understand that these are valid points. So what would happen if someone was dealing with all of those things at the same time and/or had a psych disorder on top of it all. Well they might go out and off a few people. They might even off the people they have been forced into subservience by. Don't kid yourself, most adoptees love their a-parents dearly BUT that doesn't mean we don't also see that they may have swept our issues under the rug. I have heard adoptee behaviour chalked up to many things, teen angst, "bad" blood, attention seeking etc. but rarely will an adopter step up and say "You know what this might all be from a deep sense of loss. I might be able to help if I acknowledge that the issues are stemming from adoption."

I also wonder if adopters consider that their children are at a higher risk of psychological disorders? Or if they arm themselves with knowledge of them in order to head off any issues before they are overwhelming? Or is ignorance truly bliss?

Answer 10

I think that it definately has to do with how badly the parent treats the child.

I think this report is saying - that If you have bio kids - and you're an abusive parent - then you're LESS likely to be killed by your child - than if you have adoptive kids and you're an abusive parent.

Adoptees are already a little messed up from being given up by their families. (ie - it messes with their head) Getting handed to abusive parents - really it could send them over the edge.

That's my opinion anyway.

But as for this opinion by an adoptive parent here - stalking and harassing an adoptee - in this thread - saying -

"Andrayno,

If that's how you really feel, then our countries need to pay for all the therapy for these poor children (before they end up in prison) and definitely screen the things "breeding" these psychopaths. How about nymphomaniacs stepping up and asking for hysterectomies? If you're going to play with fire, you're going to get burned. It's not our fault that you got pregnant 5 times."

- when ANDRAYA said NOTHING to provoke the attack -

well - I worry about the welfare of this parents adoptee - as obviously - some instability in mental functioning is clearly apparent - and that can't be good for the child.

I think she really needs to calm down and take a happy pill.

Answer 11

No.  Nobody worries about that kind of stuff because those adoptees who kill must have had bad parents that deserved it.  Those parents must have done something wrong.  It must be their fault.

Forget research.  Forget studies.  Forget statistics.  It's better to just get offended, threaten to report people and stick our heads back in th sand, right?

Adoption didn't ever do anything but good to anybody.  Didn't you know?

Silly!

Answer 12

Well, these statistics probably include older foster children who were adopted and not just babies who were immediately adopted.   After what some foster children have gone through, some of them may have serious mental health issues.  I know someone whose mother was killed by her teenage foster child because he wanted money from her.

Answer 13

*If* I was to adopt, the thought would never cross my mind. I would imagine the reason those kids do kill their adoptive parents are because the adoptive parents treated them like c**p. There is nothing wrong with adoption, when done right.

Answer 14

Who on earth looks at their child and says "Wow, I wonder if he/she will kill me one day?".  The only way you would even POSSIBLY think of that is if you're doing something truly awful to your child.  I think the statistic has more to do with this....

In most cases where children kill parents, abuse was a significant factor.  

Adoption means loving the child as a parent loves a child.  An abusive household would likely not do this.  

Thus, since the child wasn't loved by the "parent" as a parent loves a child, it's easier for an adoptive child to deny any relationship than it is for a biological child who may look like the parent.  



Therefor, I really think that the reason "parent killing" is higher in adoptive children (again, lets remember how small a number of people this really is) is because in those cases, the murderer isn't actually killing a parent (since the love wasn't there).

Answer 15

So 15 chances in a million instead of 1 chance in a million. This is cause for worry?

Answer 16

I'm sure this is valid information... but the trouble with statistics on percentages.. is that you can increase a lot of small numbers by 15% and it really doesn't add up to that much...

Answer 17

Lots of married people get killed by their spouses, but I doubt people think about that before getting married.

Answer 18

adoptionsicknsad = noodlesisnuts (whatever name you're using today), NO,  I don't. My daughter thankfully has a fully developed conscience. Is this your explanation for the kids who are killing their fellow students and teachers, too?

You've really gone too far, this time. There is no "movement afoot for the"  yellow journalists who are paid to say that. It has always been like this just as rag sheets feel the need to report that "Michelle Pheiffer's son and adopted daughter....". People are always looking for someone to pass the buck on. This is a good example of it.

I ask that everyone please file a violation on her/him and to avoid this monster's q&a's in the future.

Andrayno,

If that's how you really feel, then our countries need to pay for all the therapy for these poor children (before they end up in prison) and definitely screen the things "breeding" these psychopaths. How about nymphomaniacs stepping up and asking for hysterectomies? If you're going to play with fire, you're going to get burned. It's not our fault that you got pregnant 5 times.

My child is not nor has been or will be "subservient" to me or anyone else, EVER.

added: Seems like all these adoptees should be looking to murder their psychopathic bio's who birthed them and genetically passed these defective genes to them. But who's to say really, except for the anti-adoption psychopaths in here who spawned them and sent them out into the world.

Answer 19

Lmao!

I'm a foster parent, so you can imagine how 'screwed up' my kids are!  Better take some personal defense training.....

Answer 20

I hate to say it, but a large percentage of jail inmates are adopted. I heard of a Russian adoptee who once tried to do the Michael Jackson thing of dangling her little (non-adopted) sister from a balcony.

Answer 21

No, can't say I have worried about that one.  However, did you know that you have a better chance of getting hit by a truck than you would getting murdered by your child (adopted or not).  Think about that one next time you put the keys in your car.

Answer 22

Could have something to do with higher levels of mental illness.

Answer 23

Um, i'm adopted and i find your question offensive. You may not like the fact that you were adopted. But the fact is you are and you can't go back to the past. You have to move forward. The decision was made by your mother either by choice or by force. It should not make you so resentful and anger that you want to promote adoption as sad and sick. Most adoptions are good and the kids come out to be well rounded adults. Do some kids have abandonment issues, or some lingering resentment. Sometimes but some of that is because they want answers. But that doesn't mean that all adopted kids are going to kill their adoptive parents. I'm sorry I can't agree with you on this.

Edit to add: I don't mean to sound mean, it just seems that by your answers sometimes that you really hate adoption. I can't hate adoption because I have a wonderful and two loving parents. Other times I do agree with your answers.

Answer 24

I don't believe that adoptive parents need worry about this statistic.  ABUSIVE parents perhaps might consider the possibility.  

The problem with statistics is in their interpretation.  What exactly do they mean?  What are they saying?  

For example, one statistic states that more people have car accidents driving near their homes.  Does that mean they need to be more careful only while driving around town, rather than on long trips?  NO!  It only means that b/c people do most of their DRIVING near their homes, they will have more accidents near their home.  

So, if this statistic is valid, what, exactly does it mean?  Could it mean that a slightly higher percentage of adoptive parents are abusive?  And therefore, their abused children act out?  Does this occur with only the most troubled adoptions/adoptees? What are the statistics about adoptive parents who abuse their children?  

As Erin L pointed out, most likely many of these cases occur b/c of extreme circumstances. A child with a severe form of reactive attachment disorder, for example.

Edit 1: I'm not saying that any parent 'deserves' to be harmed.   I do believe statistics regarding abused children - more end up in prison, or as alcoholics/addicts, have social problems, etc. and a small percentage strike out at parents.  That doesn't mean that all abused children end up in trouble.  And it does NOT EXCUSE their behavior. It may only explain one factor in the complex issue of the human psyche.  

And I certainly didn't say that statistics are meaningless. Just that the interpretation of statistics in a report are often subjective.  

From the book, "Understanding and Preventing Violence",  interesting studies on criminality, violence, DNA & adoption:

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record...

"Significant predictors of adoptee convictions include socioeconomic status of both the adoptive and the biological parents, psychiatric history of the biological parents (especially personality disorder and substance abuse), and late placement and number of placements before final adoption.

The initial results were strikingly negative for any genetic effects on crime: 12.5 percent of the male adoptees with a criminal biological father themselves had a criminal record, compared to 12 percent of the male adoptees whose biological fathers did not have criminal records."

Answer 25

oh yeah you know WE'RE the reason our own records are sealed according to some out there WE the ADOPTED become a threat to our first parents, you know, they have a right to privacy and all, how dare us CRIMINALS seek our right to not be discriminated against ancestry and all. TAKE us, PROFIT off of us, NEVER give us the help we NEED, and then OUTCAST us from society. nutjobs.

Answer 26

I am adopted and the thought of killing my parent never crossed my mind.

I am sure my parents never thought I would kill them, tho my mom was pretty sure she would have a nervous breakdown during my teen years LOL.

I seriously doubt that one's adoption status has anything to do with if they become murders or not.

Now if a child spent several years in an abusive home before they were adopted, they could have some psychological issues that could lead to violence if not treated.

Answer 27

No but that's very interesting. I think people on this forum have made valid points about how adoptees feel about being adopted or that many adoptive parents abuse their children. Maybe that's why there is a higher probability. I can't imagine ever abusing my son or ignoring his feelings he might have about being adopted, so I don't worry about this ever happening to me or my husband.

Answer 28

Hats off to you for coming up with a very new and unique question.  Doesn't happen often.

I have to add to your commentary.  Only 4% of adult adoptees in prison are ever visited by their adopted families, while something like 50-60% of adult bio children receive visits, letters or phone calls.  This was a study out of CA and it even took into consideration distance of family from the prison.  A sad commentary about unconditional love.

Answer 29

BWAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!

Seriously, what Andraya and Robin say is true.

But no, I didn't worry about it. Still don't.

Answer 30

What worries me is that nobody stops to think, "hey...there is a problem here...adopted people are 15 times more likely to commit a serious crime such as murder?  Maybe we better look into this further."

Instead, they just come up with excuses, "Oh, they had bad aparents,"  or, "oh, they were just bad kids from foster care."

Seems to me that if adoptees as a group are represented that highly as a group that could do such a thing, we ought to be figuring out WHY.

Perhaps adoption ISN'T such a "beautiful" thing after all, huh?  At least not for that subset of the population.

It's not bad genes, it's not "Bad apples" or bad parenting.  Something deeper is going on, and I would think that if anyone truly cares about the children they would want to know why.

THAT is what really worries me.

Answer 31

No I have never considered that and now that you have mentioned it I still do not consider it.

adoptees are humans just like the biologically raised children, some are murderous some are not, some are happy some are not. If a person kills someone I do not think it has to do with the fact they were adopted but because that is who the person is. If they were raised by their biological parent would they have killed them? nobody knows, but I would like to think that i am going to raise a respectful and law abiding citizen with sound morals and values- adopted or not.