Question:

Do those that disagree with me see my side of the issues?

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I have made statements that have been blasted by some, and embraced by others.

I am wondering if the people that blast my comments are blasting them because they truly believe that there is no such thing as a good or proper adoption.

Do you truly believe that every agency/attorney is only in it for the money, and has no interest in a better life for a child?

Do you really think that all birth mothers are deceived and lied to?

Do you really believe that children are better off being told that their birth mother chose to not raise them? Am I a lesser person because I chose to raise another person's child?

We are good people. We are unable to have a biological child. We know that the child that we are raising is not our biological child. We also know that we will love him/her as much as we would a biological child.

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  1. I see your side of it. I don't see anything different "buying" a child rather than adopting one. I'm sure that you both will be great loving parents to this baby. Why would you want a baby so bad if you were going to mistreat him/her? People are way too critical on here sometimes. Best of luck to you both, I know you'll be great parents!!!!!!!


  2. I believe tht birth mother should have their own attorney, it should be paid for by the state not by the agency or the adotive family.  Some birth mothers only see the good parts of adoption and when reality hits and they want to change their minds, its too late.  Many birth moms just don't understand the law enough to be really informed.  Have you ever tried to read the legal agreement they must sign?  Its a bunch of legaleze thet these young girls don't understand.  I think adoption is great as long as everyone is on the same page.  It would prevent so much misunderstand and sorrow for both parties if birth moms were legally represented.

  3. LC - please know that I have thought that you have nothing but the deepest love for your child.

    But sadly - love alone is not what can really mend an adoptees broken heart.

    Understanding and compassion of what the adoptee has gone through - knowledge of the effects of relinquishment and withheld knowledge - all are needed to fully nurture your young adoptee as he/she travels down the road of life.

    Who are you going to learn about such things?

    Other adoptive parents who are also in complete denial about what really goes on in adoption?

    Or will you seek out knowledge from those that have experienced it first hand - and are open and honest about what goes one??

    Those that embrace your comments are mostly adoptive parents and those that wish to adopt. (a little biased in my view)

    Adoptive parents receive all of the gains in adoption.

    The adoptee and the mother receive all the losses.

    You received all the gifts from Santa.

    Mine were taken away.

    If you wish for everyone to pat you on the back for your comments - may I suggest an adoptive parent forum.

    You don't appear to ever truly hear what any adoptee has to say. (to me - it's as if you just dismiss what we have to say - without ever giving it really much thought)

    Many of your questions have been answered here and there throughout this place - but you always come back with angry posts about your feelings - and thinking that you're not being heard. (welcome to how an adoptee feels)

    I hope you will open your heart and mind to really hear what your adoptee one day has to say.

    I've lived it - I lost my mother - I lost my father - I lost my brothers and sisters - I lost all knowledge of their existence until I finally found them 36 years later -  I lost the chance to grieve the loss of them - I lost the chance to openly talk about them - I lost the chance of ever being fully integrated entirely into either of my families - I don't completely 'fit' with my adoptive family - I haven't got the shared growing-up history with my bio family - I lost embracing what I look like, as I never had another who looked just like me - I lost embracing my God-given talents at a younger age as they were different to that of my adoptive family.



    Above all - to add salt to the wound - I've been repeatedly told that I should be happy & grateful for these losses and for a life that I did not choose - for an adoption that didn't need to happen.

    If seeing my words stops just one mother from giving her child up when it really doesn't need to happen - or gives support to yet another adoptee who has been told to shut-up their entire life because an adoptive parent has told them to be grateful for their very existence - I will again sleep a little calmer tonight. (which I do most nights - as I receive many messages from adoptees that are relieved when they read my words)

    If you won't listen to any of my words - then please take a few minutes to read this blog post by an adoptive mother.

    "Four Things You Should Know About Adoption"

    http://www.worldadopt.org/blog/?p=104

    No matter what I write about your list - you do not wish to believe what I have to say - so I really won't bother.

  4. Sometimes impassioned people forget that communication is a two way street.  Everyone just wants to be heard and understood.  Acknowledging "I understand your point but I don't agree" is validating but both parties need to acknowledge.  If they know they are being heard they may open their hearts to hearing you as well.  Once you get to that point, really listening to each other, communication can be quite fruitful for everyone involved in discussing these issues.

    Perhaps those to whom you address this question need to know that you hear and understand them as much as you need validation that they hear and understand you,..whether or not you agree with each other.  Do you do that?  I'm not suggesting that you do or don't because I am not very familiar with this situation.  I'm just giving you something to think about.  Perhaps you do acknowledge their POVs routinely.

    It's not good enough to listen because others don't know that you are absorbing what they say unless you tell them.  One has to listen and acknowledge to the other party that they have been heard.

  5. Good for you. You are offering a child a better life. Raised by a loving couple unable to have there own children, but it does not matter if the child is 'biologically' yours as it will be you she/he calls 'mum and dad', you who will wipe away the tears and help them through the up and downs of life.

    I have a daughter with a previous partner, and a son with my present partner. My daughters dad has never been interested but my present partner has been brilliant, he has helped me to raise her since she was 3yr and has never treated her as anything but 'his daughter'.

    People will always find something to disagree with you over, no matter you do. I'm sure you and partner will look at your child as just that 'your child'.

    Good luck xxxxx

  6. I don't think some people can. I thanked an adoptee for presenting a positive side of adoption and got 4 thumbs down for doing so. I also would like to think that there are birthmothers who are intelligent and responsible and made a CHOICE that they thought was right. I know I spoke with the birthmother of my child both before and after the adoption. I speak HIGHLY of her to my child and when the time comes, I will support my daughter in meeting with her if she so desires (I am 99% sure she will want to do so). There are bad situations but there are also good ones. In a perfect world there would be no need for adoption, no special needs children, no infertile parents, no orphans, but as yet, there is a need, and as yet, there hasn't been a better way to fulfill these needs.

  7. Do those that disagree with me see my side of the issues?

    I can see it, but I don't agree with it--see the adoption world is all new and shiny to you.  I've been eating the proaganda for 43 years.

    I am wondering if the people that blast my comments are blasting them because they truly believe that there is no such thing as a good or proper adoption.

    Hardly any are necessary, that's for sure.  And, no, they are not 'ideal'.  Are divorced parents in step-families 'ideal'?  Of course not.  And the set-up you push, the adoptive home is more spilintered than that.  Generally, they are not healthy places--filled with lies and pretending.  

    What if your wife were reassigned to a new husband tomorrow, and you could never talk to her again?  And her husband was very 'good' to her.  And he had more money than you do, would that be okay?  We'll just get a new wife for you.  Maybe you'll like her.  But don't talk about your other wife, that will hurt her feelings.  And you should be grateful to your new wife.  She makes you dinner, and changes the sheets you sleep on!  You're lucky to have a wife--not everyone does!

    Do you truly believe that every agency/attorney is only in it for the money, and has no interest in a better life for a child?

    Of course.  They, like ALL businesses are IN business to make money.  C'mon, you CAN'T be that naive.  Who says the life you provide is 'better'?  How egotistical is THAT?  Who are YOU to judge what is better?

    The agencies & attys. make money based on other people's misfortunate, and desparate situations.  They have jobs and earn bonuses and commissions based on separating families.  Personally, I don't know how their employees sleep at night.

    Do you really think that all birth mothers are deceived and lied to?

    And shamed.  Do you think it's natural to WANT to give your child away?  Would you give me your car?  I have a better garage than you do, and I'll use premium gas, okay?  Would the act of giving away a piece os metal feel natural to YOU?  Than how can giving a child away feel right?  This is America (I assume that's where you live) there is NO reason for children here to be taken from their mothers to be raised by strangers.  We have plenty of social programs in place to help them.  It's nothing more than snobbery.  You can provide money and 'stability' now.  So, what?  I think it's a class issue in America today.  You're a better class than your little adoptee, that's why they're made to feel 'lucky' by everyone.

    Do you really believe that children are better off being told that their birth mother chose to not raise them?

    "Chose not'?  How about a little compassion?  She wanted to but just couldn't do it?  Or, heaven forbid, why not find out yourself, ask her!  Surely you have a way to do that.  Use Lexis/Nexis.

    Am I a lesser person because I chose to raise another person's child?

    No.  And I'm sorry you and your wife couldn't have children.

    We are good people.

    I'm sure you are.  And thank you for trying to understand.

    We are unable to have a biological child. We know that the child that we are raising is not our biological child. We also know that we will love him/her as much as we would a biological child.

    Please don't say this to your kid.  They know it's not true--because you don't have a bio kid to compare it to.

    You need to start reading, LC.  Hit the books.

    Thanks again.

  8. u shouldnt "buy" a child. chlidren are not something to be bargained.  i like the idea of adoption. some people are just unfit to be parents and others cant have any.  adoption is a good idea.  but buying children makes it seem like u can go to walmart and just pick one off the shelf.

  9. its almost like kids are up for sale and from the stories i can see why they would perceive that.  good luck on raising your child i would just say that they was a gift and your mother chose us to love you and raise you because she was unable to. As far as birth mothers are decieved i don't know it is their decision and their choice

  10. say hi im bob

  11. I think if you came across saying your experience. You just might be able to help a mommy. The way the world is now days talking like this could be more harm then good. Some of the questions that you are asking on here are a little strong. Some of the people on A&Q are little kids. They do get pregnant and don't know what to do. Some babies ind up in dumpsters etc. Try more in helping around here, because being a new mommy is pretty scarey. Some mommy have no other choice but to put their baby up for Adoption.

  12. I don't believe that most agencies are in it for money.  There are however many who are associated with a powerful lobby called the National Council For Adoption.  They are in it for the money.  They don't care who they hurt in the process.  It is very much about money.  Look at Guatemala for example.  The NCFA jumped down the throats of the State Department on two occasions saying that they are being neglectful and harmful in their statements.  Guess what?  They are backpeddling now with the Casa Quivara case and those 46 children.  They have now announced that all adoption agencies should stop sending referrals to Guatemala.  How many adoptive parents got hurt in that process?  What about the adoptees?  What about the natural parents who DID not give consent?  Anderson Cooper did a piece on recently.

    I don't believe all are coerced but I do believe that the agencies/attorneys do whatever they can to convince a woman to relinquish.  They don't provide information that a woman needs to make a proper, ethical and real decision.   Women are not given access to resources that would allow her to raise her baby.   In fact the Medicaid office here in Small Town Texas sends its clients to the local CPC to get a pregnancy test.  One friend not once but three times was asked to give her baby up for adoption IN FRONT OF HER HUSBAND AND TWO YEAR OLD SON.   Does adoption need reform?  OH h**l YES.  

    As an old school adoptee, my mother told me from the get go that I was adopted.   My adoptive mom has this thing about truth. She just can't stand lies of any kind. She never hid it from me.  Do I think you are bad that you adopted?  No, I just hope and pray that your adoption was an ethical one.  I pray that your child will have access to the very documents that accurately record his birth. I hope that me and the others like me to remove the stigma that is attached to adoptees.  We are supposed to be grateful to our adoptive parents for adopting us.  Putting a roof over our heads, feedings us and clothing us. The non adopted don't have to go through this.  We are supposed to be grateful to our natural parents because they didn't through us in a dumpster or abort us.  We are spoonfed gratefulness all of our lives.  Yes I am  sick of it.  As an adoptive parent, you should be too.  You adopted because you wanted a child. You probably feel grateful because you have such a wonderful child.  If you are anything like my adoptive mama, you will not take it from society.  Its up to you to change it.  You are one that has the true power.  You have the power of consumerism to change things.  The agencies and attorneys will start listening to you if you demand ethical treatment of both adoptees and their families.

  13. Ignore those who are blasting you.  They either have been in a bad situation from being adopted or being the parent that gives up for adoption or don't understand the process.  Granted, I have not been adopted or given up a child, but have cousins who are adopted and a best friend who has been adopted and have loving families and would not change it for the world.  

    You are so fortunate that the child you have was given a chance to have loving parents as you and your husband.  The birth parents loved that child enough to realize that they were doing the best for that child by giving the child up to a family who really wanted a child as you do.  Cherish the fact that you are blessed in every way in what you have and remember that the birth parents are getting support in doing the most difficult decison they could have ever made in their lives.

  14. if u were not raising that kid where would s/he b?

    u probobly saved s/he from many hardships in life by showin a littlr love...

  15. Those who believe that there is "no such thing as a good or proper adoption" have their own agenda, obviously --- and are entitled to their own opinions. Their reasons for believing that are their own, and they likely have some validity, based on their own experiences.......

    However, their reality is just that --- their reality. Their opinions are just that --- their opinions.  Individual realities and opinions don't equate to blanket truths that apply to all people in all situations.

    My own mother of origin had no interest, whatsoever, in parenting, and in no way was "deceived", "coerced" or "lied to" at the time of my relinquishment. She will happily tell you that --- and I completely respect that. Parenting isn't for everyone, and I am thankful that she recognized that. I would far rather be raised in a loving home, with people who DID want to parent, than to be raised in a home with a single woman who had absolutely no desire to be anyone's mother. She was well into her 20's when I was born -- mature enough to know parenting wasn't for her, and certainly mature enough to make the decisions she made based on what was best for her, and for myself, at the time. Those decisions are still, to this day, over four decades later, the best decision for all involved.

    No adoptive parent is a "lesser person" for choosing to raise another person's child, just as no mother/father of origin are "lesser people" for choosing not to parent, and no adoptee is "lesser" because they happen to have joined their family through adoption.

    Instead of focusing on a blanket negativity, my opinion is that people should focus on the fact that there is no set in stone "right" vs "wrong" in adoption --- there are positives and negatives, just as there are in most situations, but it's not a "one size fits all" scenario. Each situation is unique and needs to be treated as such.

  16. Why is it so important to you that your side of the issues be understood?

    What will happen IF your child doesn't see eye to eye with you when it comes to adoption? Will you be able to accept that? Or will you make sure he/she does by the language and tone you speak to them with while growing up?

    Language is incredibly manipulative. Why do you think adoption agencies tout "proper adoption language." It's to make us complient.

    If an adoptee feels like they were given up, thrown away, or whatever phrase they choose to use then that is what THEY FEEL. But those feelings are squashed with the, 'oh, no no no, your mother made an adoption plan and we chose you.' Can you see what this does? It invalidates the childs feelings and tells them how they are supposed to feel. Same goes when a child decides to use the term REAL mother. They are invalidated and told who their "real" mother is.

    Instead, why not validate and comfort? Why not say "I am sorry that you are hurting and I wish there was something I can do but please know I will always listen"?

    Why is that so hard for adoptive parents?

    I believe most agencies and attorneys are in it for the money - most - not all. I also have to question why you keep bringing up attorneys? Usually when people talk adoption they mention agencies but you always mention attorneys and often give a plug to a website to find an adoption attorney. I could have sworn that months ago when I joined here you mentioned you were an attorney. I could be wrong.

    I do think people want a better life for a child - I think they just get confused on what BETTER is. Better is not a 3 bedroom house with a big back yard, better is not a 2 parent family (because adoptive parents are not free of divorce), better is not a private school and fancy vacations.

    I know for me, better would have been wearing hand-me-downs and eating meager meals and living in a not so ideal home but having the love and warmth of my mother.

    I don't think ALL natural mothers are deceived and lied to but I know far too many that were. I've read enough agency literature directed at the natural mom to know that it's coercive. I've seen far too many accounts of mothers that changed their minds within two months of relinquishing only to be told sorry, there's nothing you can do.

    You seem very upset that your side of the issues have been disagreed with over the past few weeks. Imagine being someone who's side has been discounted, invalidated, and disagreed with for their entire lives - even though they are the ones living it.

  17. There are no real "all"s or "ever"s in the adoption world, or anywhere else in the world.  Many of us are upset because we're still dealing with the traditional/public view of adoption, which is full of "all"s and "ever"s.  For decades, it was believed ALL children were better off with two parents than one, that ALL mothers of illegitimate children were criminals or insane, that ALL adoptees who wondered about their roots were pathological.  Younger people may have a hard time believing this, but I've researched it--and I lived some of it.  

    Adoption is changing--for the better, I hope, but I also see trends for the worse.  Adoption is a minefield, and sometimes it doesn't matter how carefully you step.

    I've said this before but, for the record, mine was a good adoption.  But that didn't keep me from feeling very alone, very different, very unhappy, and very confused.  Adoption is just inherently hard on children/infants and the women who relinquish them.  I can't see that part changing, but I think adoptive parents who are open to this and research it will have a better-adjusted child.

  18. You know what, I haven't read any of your other questions or answers but it sounds to me that that you are providing a child with love and a great life that they may otherwise have never experienced. I have one daughter and my husband and I have discussed fostering a child. It sometimes saddens me of all the children that don't get tucked in of a night and who don't feel truly loved. It shows that you love you child as much as a biological parent would because you are getting upset about what some ignorant people are saying. And as parents it's really hard to get past all the judgements made by others about our parenting. Especially trying to explain to others who haven't been in our position. I'm sorry that you are not able to have your own biological children but I congratulate you on being parents, and how good it is that there is one more child in the world feeling the love of parents

  19. LOOK,you are a better person already,[for adopting a child that is not wanted] could you imagine ,what it would be like for unwanted children,to grow up without love! you are there to give your love to a child, so,what are you worried about,, mothers know what they are doing,when they give up babies ,an yes there are legal an outstanding adoption agencys PROUD  of YOU , do well ,by any child,your rewards will come later in life,an how well you do at parenting,is a life great happiness ,you will do well

  20. First, yes, of course there are good and proper adoptions.  I know that I have never said that there weren't.  I am not anti adoption and I am not an adoption hater.

    No I do not feel that ALL agencies are in it for the money.  There are some very good, ethical adoption agencies out there.  People just have to look to find them.

    No.  I don't think every first mother is deceived and coerced.  But I know now that mine was.  She was lied to by the agency and her "case worker" repeatedly.  She was promised I would not go to foster care and then I spent three months there.  Her rights were terminated early and without her knowledge because the agency was aware of the fact that she was having second thoughts.  They sent her a letter notifying her of the early termination but they deliberately sent it to a known vacated address.  And I have written proof of everything.

    I do believe that children are better off knowing the truth but unfortunately, in many cases the adoptive parents are not aware of the truth.  My adoptive parents had no idea of any of this until now, over thirty years later.  I showed my mom the papers I received and she shook her head and said, "If I had known that she wanted you, I never would have adopted you."

    And no, you are not a lesser person for wanting to raise someone else's child.  But you need to remember that your child is not a lesser person either.  They deserve to know the truth.  They deserve to know who they are and where they came from.  They deserve everything any other person in this country gets automatically.

    My adoptive parents are good people too.  My firstparents were good people.  I think I'm a good person.  What does that matter anyway?  And honestly, I don't know you well enough to decide whether you are "good", "bad" or otherwise.  And really, does it matter anyway what random strangers on the internet think of us?

    I hope you find some peace in all of this.

  21. No matter what you do, some people will find fault in it and try and bring you down.

    In everything there are good and bad.  Even with adoption, there are good agencys and bad agency..  That is just the way it is..

    Don't worry about what other things,  Keep doing what you think it best..

  22. I never blasted you.

    I believe that there are probably more attorneys than agencys that are in it for the money.  

    I believe that there are probably more birthmothers that should sit down with an UNbias party before just any ole agency

    i believe that everyone deserves honesty about where they came from EVERYONE!

    you are not a lesser person

    Why bother trying to convince just a handful of people on here about your intentions.  You will be fine parents.  Good luck

  23. Money isn't always the only thing for any business or profession.  People go into medicine because they honestly want to heal the sick.  People go into social work because they honestly want to do some good.  Just because someone earns a living or builds a business from their chosen profession, it doesn't mean that money is the only motive.

    I know there is a good adoption.  I'm an adoptive and biological mother.  I know all birth mothers are not innocent victims.  Sometimes the baby is.  

    I think children are better off being told that their birth mother "didn't know how to be the right kind of mother a baby needs, and wanted the child to have a mother who did know how to be the right kind of mother".

    As an adoptive mother, I've noticed over the last decade of so the trend in thinking that kind of leaves the adoptive parents looking like the bad guys.  I adopted my son because he needed a mother, and I knew I could be a good one.  I've always loved him in exactly the same way as I've loved my two biological children.

    I see the adoption as a gift to me and a gift to my son.

  24. Adoption is much better than the alternatives. abortion. abandonment or selling the child. or murdering the child. see it on the news everyday. horrible things kids can go through. my daughter gave a little boy up for adoption and it was the best option for her.the people who have him love him very much.

  25. Really LC, because my adoptive mother said she hated me to my face. She also said all her marital problems were my fault, and over 30 some years of other heart warming comments. You only think you will love an adopted child like "your own" because you don't know what it feels like to have your own child. You also have no idea how horrible it is to be adopted, and how it feels to be told every day you CAN NOT know who  your real mother is.  You are about as much of an expert on the feelings of adoptees LC as you are on the subject of menstrual cramps. Ditto for all other Non-Adoptive people who think they have a right to spout opionons about adoption all day long when they have no idea what they are talking about, because it has never happened to them. You PAP's are SO involved in your own poor me melodrama, that you refuse to even look at how adoption oppresses us and how it is totally mentally unhealthy for us. All adoptive parents that sit here and say adoption is so wonderful are doing the very things no parent is supposed to do-the refusal to be self -sacrificing and refusing to put the child's feelings above their own.

  26. i think that the agencies do have the best interest of the child at heart, but it doesn't seem that way when it costs more to adopt in the US than it does in other countries. Also the process takes a ridiculous amount of time, which makes people think that they are a "business".

    I do not think that all birth mothers are lied to. It may have been that way years ago, when they were drugged and tricked into signing papers right after delivery, but i do not think this happens today.

    My parents never told me that my birth mother chose not to raise me. that's kind of a given since i was adopted.

    no you are not a lesser person for wanting to raise a child, no matter who's blood it has.
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