Question:

Do women and minorities take the GLASS CEILING thing TOO FAR?

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I think a lot of them use it as an excuse. With both a woman and a black man as major presidential candidates, that just proves that nothing can stop you from reaching the top except YOU.

YES... women and minorities have a disadvantege. BUT having a disadvantege doesn't mean your DEAD. It doesn't mean you can't do whatever you want. It just means you have to work harder. I think many women and minorities refuse to work harder simply because they think they "shouldn't HAVE TO".

So do you think the glass ceiling is as thick as a lot of people make it sound? I think its more like a Cardboard ceiling if you ask me....

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  1. For the first time I actually agree with you. If you are going to shoot for a goal might as well try to achieve it as hard as you can.

    But I also think that is bull saying "women and minorities refuse to work harder simple because they shouldn't have to" thing is true. I don't even know a person who is like that anymore. Besides why would you work harder for the same cause? Before you are not a white man?

    Your just lying to yourself saying that women and minorities are the only ones who do this, You are going to sit in front of that computer and say to yourself that all men work as hard as they can.

    I didn't think so...


  2. I don't know how many women or minorities still have this mentality; you're blowing it out of proportion. Either way, they shouldn't have to work harder simply because they're female or dark-skinned. If there is concrete evidence of systemic discrimination on these grounds, they have every right to complain about it.

  3. You're right, women need to stop complaining about it.

    They need to DO something about it.

    Cardboard or glass, it's a ceiling never the less.

  4. Good question, and I will fully acknowledge this answer is coming from a white male.

    To argue there are no glass ceilings would be very short sighted.  Certain high level positions in certain industries still make it difficult for non-white males to achieve the highest levels of success.  Now, let's not be so short sighted and say that the only reason they can't obtain these positions is because of their gender or ethnicity.

    Today there are plenty of examples of minorities achieving success in the workplace and role models for the young to aspire.  I have seen these successful people interviewed on TV expressing outrage over complaints that as a class they continue to be at a significant disadvantage versus their white counterparts.  Their answer -- you just need to want it more than the next guy.  Some people  are just not willing to work hard to obtain what they want or what they think they deserve.  As such, I think the "glass ceiling" argument for many is a cop out , especially for those who are just not qualified or motivated to earn it on merit.

    Bill Cosby has made the point several times that he believes the lack of family structure, values and support has more to do with lack of success than the system failing these people.  Having children of my own, that makes a lot of senses to me.

  5. No they don't.  The system has loopholes, and traps to

    set people of different genders, and sexes back.

  6. I think it's a cop out for alot of people. Black people and women want to complain about being held back, but then there are thousands and thousands of them making it happen all over the country. There are female CEOs and black presidential candidates.

    The glass ceiling and affirmative action are an easy way to blame people for their own laziness and stupidity.

    Yes, you have to prove yourself - get over it. I work in a male-dominated industry. So I work hard and prove that I deserve to be taken seriously, and I am.

  7. NO! It is only in recent history that progress has been made. Less than 40 years ago, women and blacks were dissuaded from voting!

  8. As a rational person I don't believe in things that are invisible or can't be properly characterised. I don't believe in faries and I don't believe in invisible barriers to progress. If there is a "ceiling" then that barrier can be properly characterised. If it cannot then it really doesn't exist at all. It's superstition and paranoia.

  9. Oh Mike you give yourself too much credit- we know you don't have the necessary equipment to actually 'think'.  There is a ceiling - but to someone in mom's  basement (you)  its pretty far up.  

    Why should they have to work harder than a white male for the same reward?

  10. Maybe we'll see a research study on this as well this week that blows your conclusions all to h**l.  

    Last week you were saying men had no problems with fertility (their sperm was still okay) until they got older than 60 -70 and then this research study gets published:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080706/hl_...

  11. The glass ceiling exists for a lot of people.  Obviously some people in here do their research from newspapers, and don't actually find the reports themselves.

    And what about black women, who face discrimination because of their s*x and their race/ethnicity.  Our society is set up to reward those who are white and male.

    Women make less, and the excuse is often that they have to leave work to take care of children, even though the studies actually allow for that.

    Your house is an investment, but yet people are more often still segregated in their neighborhoods, and the black ones usually have the lower value.

    A disadvantage means that the structures in our society work against certain people.  This doesn't mean you can't make it to the top, but it works so that they are less likely to, that it takes longer and is harder.  It is unequal.

    The idea that people don't work because they think they shouldn't have to is ridiculous.  Something like 90% of people on welfare are working or looking for work.  And staying at home is work.  It is like being someone's caregiver/babysitter/janitor/cook without getting paid.  If stay at home moms/dads were paid for the work they did (meaning that if the significant other had to pay someone for all the work they did) it would be over a $100,000, and those jobs don't pay much.

  12. In the human structure, ceilings have an architectural purpose.

  13. I noticed this in your Additionals:

    I don't think they SHOULD have to work harder. But guess what? Life is NOT fair. The fact remains that they DO have to work harder. Whining wont change that.

    I wanted to respond. LIFE may not be fair, but PEOPLE COULD be. And we SHOULD at least TRY to be fair.

    Although natural disasters are unfair, and "stuff" happens, that doesn't justify social systems that treat people unfairly. That's the POINT.

    Instead of simply accepting that imbecilic and incompetent white males can more easily go farthr than smarter more competant females and people of color, we should make it so HUMAN INSTITUTIONS don't continue that policy.

    As long as they do, everyone looses.

  14. As usual feminists see discrimination against women everywhere but at the same time suffer from a curious blindness to facts that don't fit their theories e.g.

    ...when female directors earn more than men

    http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticN...

    “Female directors in corporate America earned median compensation of $120,000, based on the most recently available pay data, compared with $104,375 for male board members, research group The Corporate Library said … women in corporate boardrooms are outnumbered eight to one."

    ...or when women earn more than men

    “Young women in New York and several of the nation’s other largest cities who work full time have forged ahead of men in wages” http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/nyregi...

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