Do you agree with the new anti-home-schooling law?

Question

Apparently in California, a law just passed to make it illegal to home school your kids unless you're an accredited teacher (not just a mom who's taken classes). They are working on enforcement issues right now.

Do you think this is a good or bad idea? Do you think it will catch on in other states?

Answer 1

Did anyone ever think that it might make more sense to take actaion against the FAMILY? Maybe take away their right to home school since they seem to have been abusing it? And for all of us kids who benefit from homeschooling... maybe let our parents continue to help us become free thinking, independent, self motivated individuals and not government indoctrinated, brick-school LEMMINGS?

Answer 2

This won't hold up.  It's a wacko circuit judge asserting his own opinion about HS'ing.  Not to say we shouldn't pray about it, but it's not as bad as the HSLDA makes it out to be.  They are good at "Chicken Little-ing" situations so that they come out looking like a hero.

It shouldn't affect HS'ers in other states, anyway.  Each individual state regulates HS'ing in their own way - the power is with them, not another state or the federal gov't.

Answer 3

The radio was incorrect. A law was not passed, despite the judge seeming to think he can make it so; an appeal court came up with a particular decision that kids should not be homeschooled by parents who don't have teaching credentials. Only the government can pass laws, which the judge in question doesn't seem to know.

I think it's a horrible idea. I'm a former public school teacher and now homeschool my children. I have met many parents who do a great job homeschooling their kids even though they don't have teaching degrees. My own teaching degree did little to show me how to teach--it was about classroom management, assessing 30 kids on particular topics and more. It would be a horrible shame for so many kids who are doing well at home with their non-credentialed parents to have to be forced to go to school. There are plenty of credentialed teachers out there who are HORRIBLE teachers! Yet other magnificent non-credentialed teachers, like Marva Collins or even some local private school teachers who are highly valued.

I do not think it will catch on in other states because it goes against certain freedoms. The judgement is being sent to the court of appeal and will undoubtedly be overturned.

Answer 4

No, I don't agree.

Here is my post from another question:

It only applies to one family right now.  Don't incite panic that is unmerited.  Schools in California are freaking out right now at the loss of students to alternative educational programs, that is anything that pulls money from the public payrolls of the institutions.  Last year our local district started charging parents for lost days of school and taking students to court who missed more than 3 days!!   Enrollment was down 20% this year due to homeschool and charter schools so they had to give pink slips to some teachers and they are feeling the crunch and want our kids back!  It will never happen.

Consult hslda.org for more info.

The fact remains that there are many school districts that have waived the requirement that substitutes pass the CBEST, and have waived the minimum hours of college credit requirement!

Combine this with the fact that uncredentialed, high school only graduates can substitute 29 consecutive days in the same classroom, miss day thirty and come back for 29 successive days--which they do regularly for maternity leaves and you realize that the public schools are not providing credentialed teachers.

You should pass this information on to the appropriate people--if the state is not enforcing the rule within public schools, it cannot enforce it in private schools. In essence, the lack of compliance and non-enforcement in the public schools means that it is not actually a law.

>>

Deb S, can you clean up your post?  thanks, you have some valid points to make but its pretty unreadable and people will skip it.

Answer 5

I hate Public schools they destroyed me when I was younger and I will not let my children ever touch foot in public school. I think this law is hideous and violates a parents rights. I agree with your sister that Iwould also pack up and move to another state

Texas is the best place for homeschoolers, In Texas

you don't even have to notify the state if you home school.

Between school shootings, teen s*x, drugs and bad influence on your children---> how can anyone send thier kids to PUBLIC h**l

Answer 6

I think it's an excellent idea and long overdue. Now the children will get a decent education and the little home school moms will have to abide by the law and actually ensure their children get an education. Many, if not most, parents who try to homeschool are totally unqualified cannot even write a coherent sentence and are so arrogant and smug they refuse to acknowledge the fact that perhaps legislating common sense will benefit their children in the long run. Of COURSE anyone who teaches should be qualified, that's what this is all about and I say bravo and yes, it will eventually apply to ALL the States and thank God for that!

Also you will note the vituperative responses from the home school moms...how they will hate having their little groups destroyed! The homeschool moms are easily the most vicious, close minded and arrogant of all the forums on this site...which should also give a clue as to their overall competence or lack thereof. They're right everyone else is wrong and that is the end of that, except now the state has stepped in and high time! Bravo California!

EDIT: Dragonfly, with all due respect, I have done research and I can tell you that there is research on the anti home schooling as well. I see nothing wrong with wanting home school parents to be qualified to teach, the hysterical and dramatic reactions I see is further evidence that this law needs to be passed ASAP and be picked up by all the other states as well. Anyone can find any research to suit their purpose so the research in and of itself really is predicated on what your personal opinions are. I also see that virtually all the homsechool parents are so censorious and so arrogant they refuse to acknowedge anything new that will be helpful for their own children and condemn anyone who dares to disagree with their opinions. Closed minds are the most dangerous minds of all.

EDIT: "HSMOM" You "spout off" with impunity as do your cohorts, and as for the perception of being "minsinformed" that's relative, isn't it, since in my opinion it is you and your friends who are the ones woefully misinformed and unwilling to accept any POV that opposes your own.

As for being taken seriously, I consider it an honor NOT to be taken seriously by you and yours...that is truly wonderful.

Answer 7

hmmm.  this ruling comes on the heels of mandatory homosexual indoctrination in the public school.  with possibly thousands of parents threatening to take their children from public education,  this will be a financial disaster for school districts across the state of california. what better way for the state to keep that from happening.

Answer 8

I personally think that all the homeschoolers in CA had better do something about this, because what happens in CA eventually does spread to the other states.

Friday, March 7, 2008 (SF Chronicle)

Homeschoolers' setback in appeals court ruling

Bob Egelko,Jill Tucker, Chronicle Staff Writers

(03-06) 14:26 PST LOS ANGELES --

A California appeals court ruling clamping down on homeschooling by

parents without teaching credentials sent shock waves across the state

this week, leaving an estimated 166,000 children as possible truants

and

their parents at risk of prosecution.

The homeschooling movement never saw the case coming.

"At first, there was a sense of, 'No way,' " said homeschool parent

Loren

Mavromati, a resident of Redondo Beach (Los Angeles County) who is

active

with a homeschool association. "Then there was a little bit of fear. I

think it has moved now into indignation. "

The ruling arose from a child welfare dispute between the Los

Angeles

County Department of Children and Family Services and Philip and Mary

Long

of Lynwood, who have been homeschooling their eight children. Mary

Long is

their teacher, but holds no teaching credential.

The parents said they also enrolled their children in Sunland

Christian

School, a private religious academy in Sylmar (Los Angeles County),

which

considers the Long children part of its independent study program and

visits the home about four times a year.

The Second District Court of Appeal ruled that California law

requires

parents to send their children to full-time public or private schools

or

have them taught by credentialed tutors at home.

Some homeschoolers are affiliated with private or charter schools,

like

the Longs, but others fly under the radar completely. Many

homeschooling

families avoid truancy laws by registering with the state as a private

school and then enroll only their own children.

Yet the appeals court said state law has been clear since at least

1953,

when another appellate court rejected a challenge by homeschooling

parents

to California's compulsory education statutes. Those statutes require

children ages 6 to 18 to attend a full-time day school, either public

or

private, or to be instructed by a tutor who holds a state credential

for

the child's grade level.

"California courts have held that ... parents do not have a

constitutional

right to homeschool their children," Justice H. Walter Croskey said

in the

3-0 ruling issued on Feb. 28. "Parents have a legal duty to see to

their

children's schooling under the provisions of these laws."

Parents can be criminally prosecuted for failing to comply, Croskey

said.

"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school

children

in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the

nation as

a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting

from a

1961 case on a similar issue. Union pleased with ruling

The ruling was applauded by a director for the state's largest

teachers

union.

"We're happy," said Lloyd Porter, who is on the California Teachers

Association board of directors. "We always think students should be

taught

by credentialed teachers, no matter what the setting."

A spokesman for the state Department of Education said the agency is

reviewing the decision to determine its impact on current policies and

procedures. State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell

issued a statement saying he supports "parental choice when it comes

to

homeschooling. "

Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute, which agreed

earlier this week to represent Sunland Christian School and legally

advise

the Long family on a likely appeal to the state Supreme Court, said

the

appellate court ruling has set a precedent that can now be used to go

after homeschoolers. "With this case law, anyone in California who is

homeschooling without a teaching credential is subject to prosecution

for

truancy violation, which could require community service, heavy fines

and

possibly removal of their children under allegations of educational

neglect," Dacus said.

Parents say they choose homeschooling for a variety of reasons, from

religious beliefs to disillusionment with the local public schools.

Homeschooling parent Debbie Schwarzer of Los Altos said she's ready

for a

fight.

Schwarzer runs Oak Hill Academy out of her Santa Clara County home.

It is

a state-registered private school with two students, she said, noting

they

are her own children, ages 10 and 12. She does not have a teaching

credential, but she does have a law degree.

"I'm kind of hoping some truancy officer shows up on my doorstep,"

she

said. "I'm ready. I have d**n good arguments."

She opted to teach her children at home to better meet their needs.

The ruling, Schwarzer said, "stinks." Began as child welfare case

The Long family legal battle didn't start out as a test case on the

validity of homeschooling. It was a child welfare case.

A juvenile court judge looking into one child's complaint of

mistreatment

by Philip Long found that the children were being poorly educated but

refused to order two of the children, ages 7 and 9, to be enrolled in

a

full-time school. He said parents in California have a right to

educate

their children at home.

The appeals court told the juvenile court judge to require the

parents to

comply with the law by enrolling their children in a school, but

excluded

the Sunland Christian School from enrolling the children because that

institution "was willing to participate in the deprivation of the

children's right to a legal education."

The decision could also affect other kinds of homeschooled children,

including those enrolled in independent study or distance learning

through

public charter schools - a setup similar to the one the Longs have,

Dacus

said.

Charter school advocates disagreed, saying Thursday that charter

schools

are public and are required to employ only credentialed teachers to

supervise students - whether in class or through independent study.

Ruling

will apply statewide

Michael Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense

Association,

said the ruling would effectively ban homeschooling in the state.

"California is now on the path to being the only state to deny the

vast

majority of homeschooling parents their fundamental right to teach

their

own children at home," he said in a statement.

But Leslie Heimov, executive director of the Children's Law Center

of Los

Angeles, which represented the Longs' two children in the case, said

the

ruling did not change the law.

"They just affirmed that the current California law, which has been

unchanged since the last time it was ruled on in the 1950s, is that

children have to be educated in a public school, an accredited private

school, or with an accredited tutor," she said. "If they want to send

them

to a private Christian school, they can, but they have to actually go

to

the school and be taught by teachers."

Heimov said her organization' s chief concern was not the quality of

the

children's education, but their "being in a place daily where they

would

be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety."

Online resources

The ruling: To view the ruling by the Second District Court of

Appeal, go

to links.sfgate. com/ZCQR.

Answer 9

It is not a law.  It is a ruling on a law by an appeals court, which will be depublished by the California Supreme Court.

Answer 10

Not at all. This ruling is unconstitutional and is a horrible disservice to students and families.

EDIT:

"the little home school moms"

"little groups"

Mystery, misogynist much?

What is it about homeschoolers that you find so threatening that you need to denigrate us?

I'm not sure if you realize how small your responses reveal you to be. Your lack of respect and your bitterness toward women, citizens protecting their civil rights, grass root organizations striving to improve the lives of our youth and involved mothers in particular is just sad.

Answer 11

It's a horrible idea! As a group, home schooled kids tend to do much better academically than public schooled kids. This law is yet another attempt by the Teachers' unions to discredit the practice. I certainly understand the need to have kids tested periodically to make sure they are progressing at the same rate as their public schooled counterparts, but to require the parent be a teacher is preposterous and elitist.

Answer 12

I think its a horrible idea.  I had to be home schooled because I got very sick and the doctors couldn't diagnose me (finally I was diagnosed 9 months later it was an allergic reaction)  so the school wouldn't let me go through their home school plan.  I had no other choice than to be home schooled by my mother ( who doesn't have a teaching degree) because I was so sick and I learned more in that year than any other year in school.  Plus I finished faster and I never thought I say this but learning was kind of fun.  The only bad thing I can think of about being home schooled is you don't get to be in school with your friends but you can see them any other time.  Plus just because some one has a degree to be a teacher doesn't always mean that their a good one.  It probably will catch on in other states because I think more people are becoming anti-public schools and the law would protect the teachers jobs and scare more parents away from home schooling.

Answer 13

I know there has been a bunch of info going around on this; it wasn't actually a law that was made, it was a ruling made by an Appellate Court judge that misinterpreted current law.  Several legal groups are on this, to make sure that it doesn't become law.

Mystery, your "facts" are seriously fictional.  I'm sorry that you don't agree with homeschooling - and that's your right - but you really shouldn't spout off about things that you're not informed of.  All that happens is that people see how truly uninformed you are...and no one takes you seriously.

Edit - Giggle.  Sorry, couldn't resist.  Mystery, if you'll read any of my other posts, you'll see that my parents are public school teachers, my dad is an NEA lobbyist, and I'm pretty open with the opinion that homeschooling is not for everyone.  My son researches things from many points of view on a daily basis, and he's allowed to get information from many different sources - thereby learning to evaluate info for himself.  I grew up in my parents classrooms (they're National Board Certified, by the way), and took education track courses in college.  I didn't pursue my certification because I decided not to teach in public classrooms, but that doesn't mean that I'm not qualified.

I have friends who have been teaching in CA for 4+ years without a certification - they were emergency hires several years ago, and have never been asked to get their certification.  We're talking high school English, computer science, and math.  One of them, the one who teaches computer science, is the computer coordinator for the district and organizes training for other teachers - yet does not have his certification.  Does that make these people bad teachers?  Nope - not in the eyes of their students, or apparently the eyes of the school districts or Board of Ed.  Yet you'll "spout off with impunity" against people who are educating their own children?  Uncertified teachers can be in charge of 120+ children every day, in charge of technology training for a large district, yet I'm unqualified to teach my own son?

Yep, makes perfect sense.  Gotcha.  (I think you missed out on Logic in public school...oh yeah, they don't teach that anymore.  My 10yo, however, takes it and can punch holes in a lot of what you just said.)  You're allowed to have your own opinion, but if you're going to make accusations like that, back it up with fact.  You haven't yet - at all - which is why no one takes you seriously.  Misinformation is not at all relative...it's very much a concrete thing.  Such things as facts do still exist today, promise.

Answer 14

If this is true than this idiot judge is forgetting a good many things about public schools.

A few days ago a principal abducted one of his own 13 year old female students and took her home to molest her. This happened in Los Angeles, the judge's own state.

Putting aside hazings, school shootings, and bullying, what part of this did the judge not figure out?

So, this judge feels it's safer for our children to be around a rapist accredited school official than an unaccredited responsible parent?

Our authority figures in this country are so stupid they couldn't steal a free refill.

Answer 15

It wasn't a law that passed. Rather a judge ruled that homeschooling is illegal without a teaching credential. This is not likely to stand

Mystery,

Try doing some research. Homeschoolers excel in their environment. Based on the research, homeschoolers score much higher on standardized tests than do their classroom schooled peers regardless of their parent's education level.

Clearly  you don't work in education or you would know that teacher education classes don't involve learning to teach, but learning to manage a classroom. Teaching homeschool involves a completely different set of skills.

Answer 16

Let's see, those folks will take cops and go door to door, pounding on doors demanding to see "credentials."  Obviously, the homeschoolers on this area are going to find this a big problem.  Of course I disagree with it.  

BTW, I am a homeschooling mom, who is "accredited" and decided while doing my work in the Public Schools.  Accredited does not equal learning by children.

Answer 17

They have made no such law. You have been misinformed. Their has been a judge that is trying to rule against a set of parents that are homeschooling their children in the Los Angelos Area. The media still doesn't have all their facts. The Homeschool Legal Defense still doesn't know all the details of it, but are checking it out.

Just because a judge might rule against this family doesn't mean a law has been made.

Don't you know how Laws are made? A judge doesn't make a law.

I doubt very seriously that we will see such a law passing anytime soon. The State of California is already is a sad situation with schools being overcrowded and having to make budget cuts so they need more parents to actually homeschool their kids. Also the sad housing market. If they made it illegal to homeschool in California there would be even more empty homes and people moving to other states. They don't want that. They are trying hard to remedy the problem as it is. The more empty homes that stand the more the economy is hurt and the city is hurt. It ups the crime rates, looks bad for the city.

There are a hundred reasons why it would be a mistake to make homeschooling illegal and to take rights away from parents. It isn't gonna happen.

If it did for some odd reason we would know that California has some idiots in their government.

Right now California has bigger fish to fry than homeschooling and this is only one case that we don't know all the details.

You assume it only makes an a.. out of you as they say.

Answer 18

College educated teachers fail to educate our nations children on a daily basis. Homeschoolers out perform thier 'schooled' peers all accross the board. What does that tell you about the need to be credentialed?

This case won't last a second in the supreme court.

Answer 19

This ruling is unconstitutional and will not hold up I suspect. I pray it doesn't as well. All I can say that the number of success stories greatly outweighs any negative stories about home schooling, and before you start stating an uneducated opinion on any matter, you really need to do a little research. I say this not directed to the asker but to the inevitable nay sayers about home schooling that this question will attract.

Mystery, could you post where you get your FACTS? Seeing how in our group of Home schoolers( my personal experience is stronger than any site I can refer you to, but if you really don't have the energy to do your own research I can post some) has graduated out and sent kids into various lines of work after years of college. They have successful marriages and jobs and are outstanding citizens. Seems to me the "unqualified parents" did a great job and very few of them have any formal teaching training. We have teachers, Med school students, Military (special weapons) occupations (officers), students with full ride scholarships, ect. Spouting of opinions really isn't attractive.

Added again: so you have no resources to present as facts, instead you start hurling insults. Yep, you must be a proud product of the public school system. BTW, close minded? I am FAR from it. I use public school as a TOOL, not the only means of education. My kids have diverse friends and activities and get more of the real word then any kid in public school full time. They also get the tools to function in the real world and not just blindly follow along with the crowd as you obviously do. They know how to do research before they throw out an opinion so they don't look ridiculous.

TO MYSTERY ONCE AGAIN: POST the facts and where to see them! Other that isolated cases, there are no studies on the whole of homeschooling that come out negative. You having an opinion does not a fact make.