Do you feel the adoption reform movement is doing itself a disservice when it alienates a large portion...?

Question

of the population? It seems that everybody on this forum should want adoption reform on some level. Who doesn't want open records? Who doesn't want financial reform? Who doesn't want open adoptions upheld by law? These among MANY other things are something we can all get behind.

However, does it really benefit the cause when a major portion of people involved in adoption are completely alienated? Adoptive parents and adoptees who express any sort of happiness are treated very harshly on this forum and among many of the organizations that support adoption reform.

I've gone to check out some of the websites mentioned to learn more about adoption reform and am confronted by an intro where a screaming infant is being pulled away from his cryng mother. That really leaves me with no desire to work with people who look at me like that: a baby stealing monster.

I think until the adoption reform movement stops alienating a large portion of people, their just spitting in the wind.

Answer 1

People are very passionate about the issue - it has affected their lives profoundly, particularly the mothers of the baby scoop era; whose frustration and pain I totally understand since reading the Girls Who Went Away.  For those ladies, their babies literally were taken from their arms.  I'm not sure which sites you've been visiting but you may be getting offended by something that you played no part in - you weren't around back then and nor was your son.

Have you visited this organization's website - they have done lots of interesting studies and reports, are working for change and are not affiliated with money-making adoption agencies (unlike the NCFA)  take a look and let us know what you think (For the Records is their latest report on the sealed records issue)

http://www.adoptioninstitute.org/index.p...

It would be great to have more support from adoptive parents to change adoption for the better.  I hope you join us.

Answer 2

Reformation, in most causes, has been the result of a individual or group that has been hurt and angered. Everyone goes through stages. It's just like when someone dies, you WILL go through the different stages, but everyone goes through them at a different pace.

Everyone responds to different people. It takes all types to get a message across.

Regardless of how you personally feel about a particular person, and how they express themselves, it shouldn't have an effect on what you believe. If you believe that everyone should have equal rights, then that's what you believe. If you change your mind because you don't like one of the messengers, then you must not really believe.

For example, there are many people who watch TV church. Some like the charasmatic, screaming, bible thumping pastors. Others like a more sedate soft spoken pastor. It doesn't change the message. You just switch channels and change the messanger.

I personally get something from the "angry" pro-reformist. They catch my attention. I hear their cries of pain. I also get something from the "softspoken" pro-reformist. THey balance each other out. They all bring something to the table.

ETA:

I applaud you for wanting to do the best for your child. Yes, we ESPECIALLY need mom's and dad's who have adopted children. Sometimes we have to endure great pain, sacrifice, and heartache to do what is right for our children. ALL children. It doesn't mean we're going to like it, but we know it has to be done. Anything worth having, generally, will involve swallowing the proverbial "bitter pill". When your children are older, they will be so proud of you and grateful.

Best wishes.

Answer 3

in order to get any movement to progress, be it the NAACP, g*y and L*****n Rights, etc., you have to band together with a desired outcome and make that outcome known . . .but you have to spread the word in a productive manner.  I agree with you that some organizations that are posted here are extremely radical in nature and will cause one to immediately shun their org hence their ideas.

The March that is going to be held in NO, LA this summer (I will NOT be a part of it) is a way to bring attention to the cause.  When the news cameras are there interviewing people, which interview do you think viewers will respond to better:

journalist:  "Hello, i see you are marching here - what is your purpose"

protester:  "I am trying to gain equal rights to my birth certificate much like you have. I am trying to knowledge of my ancestory, much like you have.  I am trying to obtain my full medical history, much like you have.  But unfortunately, I can not until we wake up our legislators and change the laws across the nation to allow me the same rights and information you have"

or do you think viewers will better resond to:

Journalist:  "hello, I see you are marching here - what is your goal?"

Protester:   "To throw every greedy baby stealing woman in jail because she has committed a crime against her sisters.  All social workers who are a part of this profit bearing kidnapping scam should also be thrown in jail.  YOU, i tell YOU, YOU are the cause of my pain.  My bmom who created me has zero responsibility in this equation because it's all the fault of greedy baby mongering infertiles who feel they deserve a baby and it's not my bmom's fault"

i don't know about you, but i'd rather be informed than see the venom of anger.   As we've said before, anger can be a good thing but it has to be dispensed as a good thing to be taken well.   There's a time and a place for everything but education always has a place everytime.

i have been able to contact a few of the people on the 'other side' of the issue from me and thankfully, i have found that i am able to obtain more information that way.  The few people that i have contacted off the board have been EXTREMELY COURTEOUS and willing to share information in a kind way knowing htat i probably won't agree with them . . .but i am at least seeing a bit more of their point.  I can agree to disagree especially when informed of their stance.

i think frustration levels run high because this topic, its very nature, is very personal and explosive due to its nature.  We drop all decorum and kindness once we log on and figure "what the heck, i'll never meet this person" and then the p**p starts flying around.  Truthfully, i really believe that if we were all to get together around a round table, we could probably have a very civil discussion.  Most of the people on here are very well educated about their stance, educated in general, family loving people with other hobbies besides Y!A.    

too bad we couldn't all have a consensus and have a virtual conference to truly hammer out something htat satisfies everyone and then submit it.

Answer 4

I know a lot of people in reform who are really making a difference.  Some are even adoptive parents.  Because of them, four states have completely opened records to all adoptees.  A couple of states have opened them up for most adoptees.  I don't know why you are talking so mean about them.  They are really helping.  I'm adopted and I really appreciate them and try to help where I can, too.

Answer 5

Cowboy_fan, your anger and nasty words toward people on a personal level here is unpalatable and entirely due to misinformation and certainly not knowing the whole story.

I have many AP friends who fully support and are involved in bringing about reform.  I am not against AP's as a whole.  I was RAISED by AP's!  I do have a problem with PAP's/AP's who come across as entitled and have little concern with the adoptee's possible issues.  I AM an infertile woman who very much wanted children.  I do not, however, think that I am entitled to a child just because I wanted one.  So, no, I do not dislike AP's as a whole.  That's like saying I dislike another ethnic group in its entirety simply because I may not like a few people who happen to be of that ethnicity.  It's illogical and would certainly imply that I, and most people, dislike all people of every ethnicity.

I have no idea about this Website to which you refer.  I'm sure it exists, but I've never seen it.  It's not my Website, so please don't get on everyone in reform over a Website with which we are not even familiar, let alone affiliated.

The reform movement is very diverse and vast.  The various testimonies and interviews are not what you insinuate them to be.  Gershom and Heather have pointed out just a few of the organizations that support and/or work for reform out there.

You are entirely unfamiliar with the actual reform movement outside of the little bits and pieces you choose to grasp from Y!A.  Considering the number of people involved in reform, as well as the Supreme court judges who have ruled in favor of reform when a few people have brought suit against reform that has passed, I'd say you don't know the facts.  We've got a number legislators on our side.  The wheels may turn slowly, but they are turning in the direction of reform.  States HAVE reopened records to adult adoptees.  So, indeed we are not spitting into the wind.

ETA:

I also meant to mention that it is clear you have no idea whatsoever the amount of time, effort and work people are putting into reform.  You pointed out Gershom in particular.  Ironically, she is one of the hardest reformists I've ever met, and believe me I've been doing this for a while and know MANY people in reform.  You are so out of line and so  lacking in knowledge of the realities that it is clear you are doing nothing more than spewing venom.

Answer 6

I disagree.  Every major reform movement in the United States has come from a great number of people of all ranges of extreme opinions coming together for the reform.  There has *always* been conflict between those working for reform between those that want to build a bridge, and those that want to rattle cages.  Personally I think all of they types are needed for change to happen.  There has to be an impact to change public opinion in order for change to happen sooner than later.  Otherwise it's weak cheese change.

Edit to add:

You missed the point.  Each person contributing to the discussion of change is a contribution needed.  For every adoptive parent that gets alienated by being spoken to in they way they do, there is an adoptee or first parent who gets alienated for being spoken to by adoptive or potential adoptive parents.  There will always be bridge builders and educators.  But it won't always be the same person.  Frustrations and tolerance for educating wax and wane over periods of time.

As important as polite educating is needed, there is also a time and place for rattling cages and pointing out really uncomfortable truths.  There will *always* be someone in a reform movement that goes above and beyond with their words and actions that will make you uncomfortable.  But, the more people talking and acting means that the change is coming.  I'll take conversation drama any day if it means change is coming and talking is happening.

Answer 7

Honestly, I'm tired of this question.  I have never set out to alienate those who express some happiness about adoption.  On this forum, those who express some dissatisfaction with adoption are told that they had bad experiences and they don't represent everyone.  Well, if that's true, then I don't have anyone to alienate.  They have already alienated me.  When I say there is something wrong with adoption, do you agree or don't you?  If you agree, then we're on the same page.  If you disagree, then you wouldn't want to be part of my reform movement.

ETA:  Good point, Magic Pointe Shoes.  Women didn't win the vote by sucking up to men.  Blacks didn't win equal rights (such as they have) by playing nice with whites.  You have to speak truth to power.  Sometimes truth hurts.

ETA2:  I defy anyone to point to one place where I talked about APs as baby-stealers or greedy.  One place.  If you want to throw the baby out with the bath water, then "NowWhat" is right, you don't really believe in reform.

ETA3:  Wow.  I really don't know what to say.  I have never, as a group, lambasted APs.  NEVER.  I don't feel that way.  I have never felt that way.  I don't even know the websites you are talking about.  (I don't deny they exist, I just don't know of them.)  I have no idea where you get off saying that that's how I feel.  I have never said anything to suggest that, nor have I ever felt that way.  That you so easily cast aspersions on me strikes me as particularly hateful.  Talk about alienating people.  I actually have had the impression you are a good parent.  But this bile you seem intent to heap on me is totally uncalled for.

ETA4:  Just a little food for thought:  "Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it."  -Chinese proverb

I think alienating overly sensitive prigs is probably okay for the reform movement.

Answer 8

Cowboyfan, what you're failing to add onto about the introduction to The Adoption Show is that this show is about "exposing the myths" in adoption. That is a representation of babies that were taken from their mothers against their wills.  And that has happened to MANY especially in the BSE.

I fail to see how a handful of adoptive parents on THIS FORUM represent the entire population of adoptive parents, and due to the disagreements HERE, that a "large portion of society" is now being left out.

You don't represent the whole adoptive parent community.

There are TONS of adoptive parents supporting the protest. I am doing a guest blog on a new website for very pro adoption, adoptive parent bloggers from a.com next week. who are all in support of open records and reform and know that I have a segment on The Adoption Show. The support from adoptive parents OFF OF  YAHOO ANSWERS is enough without YOUR PERSONAL support.

The Adoption Show has done a h**l of alot of informing on issues the govt. doesn't want to talk about, agencies don't want to talk about, and clearly some adoptive parents don't want us talking about it, such as yourself!. Did you listen to any of the past shows, or did you just stop at the ending the myths introduction?

If you can't separate the Adoption Show, from the Protest, from state by state reform bills to help open records THAT way then its really YOUR PROBLEM. There is more stuff to do for individuals regarding reform then I can count on my hands. Your generalization, and blanketing of all of them together is old and childish.

The "adoption reform" movement isn't alienating a large portion of people. The adoption reform movement includes people from all walks of life. The Evan B Donaldson Institute is run by an adoptive parents. They are the leading institute for open records. We had an adoption agency sign up for the protest last week. We have MANY adoptive parents coming in support of open records TO the protest. Infact, some adoptive parents are coming with their adoptees who aren't even of age yet. Just because they know the importance of their adoptee having his/her birth certificate.

Thanks for giving The Adoption Show the credit of the "adoption reform movement" I'll tell the owner, she'd be thrilled. Wow, do you think we could put that on the bio? The Adoption Show, leading the movement for reform.

You can sit there and think of the adoption reform movement as a whole, ( and who exactly makes up the entire adoption reform movement according to you? ) is alienating people as if WE HERE are the only reformers in the world for adoption reform, while I keep telling myself never to reply to your posts again.

I shouldn't be wasting my time with someone who can't even see the "big picture." Who wants to generalize and mash together the entire reform movement as alienating because one small group also working for reform, not leading the movement, has a picture with a baby being taken from its mother. Yeah okay, you're making a lot of sense today ms. cowboy.

Let me explain it to you like this. There isnt one group leading reform, there are many educating the public in their own ways and they have every right to do that. MANY. These different groups come in the form of adoptive parents, adoptees, and surrendering parents. You can find groups that have people in with interests similar to yours since there are so many, it shouldn't be hard. Some of them are more extreme than others. Some of them are less active. Some of them are kick ***. I happen to be in all of the kick *** ones. If you're going to want to be in a kick *** one, you're going to have to stop generalizing and blanketing the movement as a whole, and understand its from people with all different walks of life. Reformers come together because they believe in the reason for reform. You need to pinpoint what reasons you want to work on reform, and find the group accordingly. Once you find that group, you have to realize that its people from all walks of life. I work with PAPS, AP's, Parents who've lost their children to adoption, and Adoptees EVERY SINGLE DAY. All differences aside for the single purpose of reform. Its not about who or where you come from, its about what you'd like to contribute because reform is that important to you.

Reform doesn't jump through YOUR HOOPS.  Reform is about setting aside the differences, finding the group that works best for you and stoping the complaining and doing something to bring change. Reform isn't about pointing fingers at other people because we're not here waiting for you with a carriage prepared to do things exactly the way you want it done because you're an adoptive parent and have only just now decided to get involved.

I will not reply to cowboy anymore I will not reply to cowboy anymore I will not reply to cowboy anymore....

Answer 9

I don't know if this will help or not, but whenever I see something negative about adoptive parents, I choose to believe they are NOT talking about me.  There is a specific group of people who are uninformed about adoption (generally these are the adoptive parents who's only concern is getting that child, regardless of the consequences to the child, or others in the child's life - and that doesn't apply to me).  If I read something that bothers me, I ask myself why...and if it applies to me, I ask how I can either change the perception, or change the deed (i.e. change my behavior).  If none of those is possible, and I honestly believe I'm doing the best I can, and as long as I know without a doubt that I'm not violating anyone's rights...at that point, I just chalk it up to differing opinions, and leave it at that.  I work my buns off for the kids I don't even have yet (and for the ones I work with every day at my job) - I KNOW I'm doing something right.  Don't let it bother you too much.

Answer 10

yes.. in MY experience some of the reformers here, while I'm sure they mean well, can be VERY nasty to PAPs and others who haven't done anything to them.. they can, at least, come across as very narrow-minded (adoption is evil, needs to be illegal, etc) I'm talking about how they APPEAR, okay? This DOES alienate and seriously offend people, especially people like me who cannot have their own children and want someday to FIND a child that NEEDS a home.. I HAVE seen these adoptee reformers, treat people like you and me like nothing more than greedy, entitled, baby stealers..

That said, I DO believe there is alot that DOES need to be reformed in "the system" I"d be first in line to do it.. but no, not standing next to people with websites like you're describing, who treat PAPs or anyone else the way that I've seen  here...

That said, I know some people have been very insensitive to the adoptees and called them "whiners" etc.. so the attacking DOES come from both sides.. I don't know.. I haven't seen everything.. but what I HAVE seen appears that a group of adoptee reformers often gang up and REALLY  trash, wrongfully report, anyone who disagrees with them..

so I agree with you 100% just like that EXCELLENT response you gave to a quesiton yesterday that was  unfortunately (The question) deleted..

ETA.. PHil.. Just for the record..  you  HAVE referred to ME as "entitled" for DARING to say that I am  infertile but would some day like to adopt (again.. how many times do I have to scream.. "FIND a child that NEEDS a home") though you DID use the word "entitled" and NOT "greedy, baby stealing" your responses to me did (at least the impression I got) absolutely OOOZE  with insinuation of the latter....

and you and now what are NOT right.. I'm very anti-abortion, but just because I want nothing to do—absolutely no association—with clinic bombers, does NOT mean I won't still keep campaigning about abortion in a different way, I just won't come within 100 feet (figuratively) of association with organizations that do it the wrong way..

ETA: After reading all responses as unbiasedly as I can.. SERIOUSLY.. Cowboy fan is totally correct about how hate-filled Gershom comes across, and the people with similar mindsets really ARE, with some exceptions, the ones doing the bashing  of PAPs and APs.. not the other way around.. Comparing cowboyfan's post to Gershom should be a wake-up call to ANYONE who can read...

Answer 11

It's not us. The system is alienating them. Because the system is broken. we don't know which adoptions stories are true or just B.S.

The alienation is something that happens when something like this perverted mess is allowed to go on for so long.

This resentment is a side effect of a broken busted system.

The good stories that are heard here come at the cost of someone not getting a good home.

Cause if you get the good home someone has got to get the bad home.

Answer 12

Please check out the website www.informedadoptions.com

This is a site made up of mostly APs that support and are actively working towards adoption reform.

There is alot you could learn and contribute there.