Do you go by dictionary definitions of words or their common usage in society?

Question

I see a lot of people who say feminism is about equality "because the dictionary says so." That's the end of the argument in their opinion.

However, many of these same people will use the word "patriarchy" to describe the whole system of oppression of women in society. My dictionary says that patriarchy is a familial system where the father is head of a household. It never says anything about society in general (that definition is paraphrased slightly).

If you really think dictionary definitions of words don't change over time, try this one out. Next time you're in public and you're in a happy mood, yell out "I'm so g*y!" and see how people react. Because g*y means happy, right? I mean, that's what dictionaries said for a long time.

So which is it? Do we go by the dictionary definitions of words, or by how they're used in society?

Answer 1

hmmm you make a valid point rebel man.

At the risk of getting thumbs down by the elusive gestapo I'm going to say people in general use words and their meanings to fit whatever they are saying.

I could say patriarchy is the cause of all problems in the world and go on to describe sexism against women, rape, unequal pay, etc. but that term wouldn't technically fit. Even though it doesn't necessarily fit some people would still rally around what I was saying.

Answer 2

The definition of the word feminist/feminism in the dictionary (feminism is about "equality") is simply a "politically correct" definition. Words and their definitions are merely devices people use to communicate and has no relevance to an action in society.

The definition of Communism is favorable and humane as well, but we don't base our experiences on the definition alone. Just ask anyone who have live under Communist regime and they'll tell you a completely different story.

Answer 3

What you have to remember is that there are lots of clearly different / identifiable names for 'mens' politics, but only one for 'womens'.  Liberals, Democrats, Marxists - it's easy to differentiate, very few people get confused and say all politics is a lie because one is for this, and one is for that.

The fact is, there is much that feminism disagrees on - patriarchy being one of those things.  It isn't that one is a feminist and the other isn't, it's just that one looks for an individual explanation and one looks for a social explanation.  It's almost exactly the same with civil rights - some believe that individual rights will solve it, some think a little more is necessary (affirmative action) - it isn't that they're not both against racism, it's just about how they plan on fixing it.  For a socialist feminist, the fact that families (primary socialisation) are headed by older males sets everyone up to expect the same thing in society, employment, education, etc.  I hate to sound like a stuck record, but this is why it really is necessary to distinguish between the different kinds of feminism, as 'politics' and 'democracy' no more explain a person's stance than 'feminism'.  At best, it indicates a general interest in equality, but not much more :-)

Answer 4

I was actuallly thinking of the word g*y and it's real meaning before you said it. I am soooo g*y right now! lol! You have a good point. So many people think that submission means slavery or oppression.

Submission: "A yielding and obedient attitude of the heart, but also, and equally importantly, to an attitude of co-operation and support."

Answer 5

It is the members of a group who get to decide what they, and the group itself, stand for.  Feminism is not a group with a leader, per se, but the general consensus among feminists is that feminism is either 1. about equality or 2. about getting equal rights and equal treatment for women.  Neither of which are bad things, and they can't be reasonably extrapolated to "hating men" or "subjugating men".  

The reason why the definition of the word "patriarchy" can change is because "patriarchy" is not the name of a group of people.  It's just a word describing a social system.  There is no group somewhere called "the patriarchs" who is fighting untrue stereotypes and inaccurate definitions of "patriarchy".  

And to be fair, the "the whole system of oppression of women in society" has, thus far, invariably followed whenever a society has had "familial systems where the father is head of a household".  Thus both definitions of patriarchy are accurate.  However, "taking rights away from men" or "hating men" does NOT invariably follow when women are granted equal rights and equal treatment in a given society.  Does it happen?  Sure, but does it ALWAYS happen or does it HAVE to happen?  No.  And frankly, most feminists don't want it that way.  

To answer your final question, words must be allowed to evolve.  If things were otherwise, we'd still be speaking Old English or some other even older language.  

However, when it comes to definitions that define groups of people, it is the group itself which gets to define the group...it isn't right to allow a bunch of uninformed, biased yahoos to get to decide what feminism is, when we the feminists already KNOW what it is.  

Here's an analogy:  You're a Christian, right?  Let's say you (and other Christians) think that the definition of a Christian is "someone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, has accepted His salvation, and tries every day to be more like Him".  Would it be fair for some religion-hating atheist to come along and try and define Christians as "dogmatic bible thumpers who try to force their beliefs on other people and frequently commit unspeakable acts in the name of their imaginary God"?  Technically, he has a point, as Christians have done those things in the past (and some are still doing them now).  However, is it right for him to come along and label you with such a heinous definition, when YOU and the majority of your fellow Christians already KNOW what you stand for and what you are?  No...no, it isn't.  This is why feminists hate it when misogynists/anti-feminists try and force their false definition of feminism down everyone's throats.  If you're not a feminist, you don't get to make false claims about what feminists want/believe, simple as that.

Answer 6

Common usage.

If I go by the dictionary definition of politician, my country would be heaven.

Answer 7

Hm... why don't you just call me out specifically here?

Well, if you had looked at my comment in the context, you would have seen that it was a joke intended to point out how ridiculous the question was. Not a serious argument. And your inspired response is "word usage changes?" *roll eyes*

So, if I was to say that Communism is all about supporting industry, and if you read me the (correct) definition, I can just say that well, word meanings change. Do you see the fallacy of your argument here?

Also, common usage does not change definition. "g*y" still means happy, and "patriarchy" can be applied as a metaphor for larger society, made up of small units ie. households.

Feminists define feminism. And, for the majority of us, it is the belief that both genders are inherently equal. Period.

Edit: See, fighting for women's rights in a patriarchal environment IS being a proponent of gender equality. You just misinterpreted the usage. Were a guy to ever be given less opportunity because of gender, feminists would be the first to come to his defense. I am a staunch believer that both genders have the right to lives of their own choice. I don't expect any special treatment for my gender, and neither should anyone. Seriously.

Edit 2: " I like your backtracking. You had a decent argument until you shot yourself in the foot by using patriarchy in a metaphor but say only feminists can define feminism."

... I didn't backtrack anything. My entire argument is consistent, as my beliefs on the subject are consistent. My response to you was consistent. No offense, but you keep over-simplifying and drawing illogical conclusions. For example, I have no idea how the second sentence of that statement makes any kind of sense.

Patriarchy, like any other word in the English language, can be used as a metaphor. However, according to the MW dictionary it is also DEFINED as: ": a society or institution organized according to the principles or practices of patriarchy." So there you go. Another example of how when a word's usage LEGITIMATELY evolves among the general population, the dictionary accommodates it.

Firstly, I didn't say ONLY feminists can define it. But if the members of an ideology are not one of the best-qualified to define it, then who is? You can go around assuming its something different as much as you want, but it doesn't change it. And that is the point I was trying to make to you. Please ask for any further clarification.

Edit 3: "

What if somebody used feminism as a metaphor for man-hating?"

*sigh* We are back to my original response. Way to backtrack. This is an example of an INDIVIDUAL choosing to incorrectly use a word when it has no business being there. It does not change legitimate definitions. Patriarchy and its evolution, on the other hand, is merely a concept applied on a larger scale.

Edit 4:

You know what? I'm done. I've found more holes in your argument than swiss cheese and still you say the same illogical things. I'm not wasting any more time.

Answer 8

How about Conservative...belief and the protection of a monarchy.

Radical feminist has even changed...back in the day of the first wave.  They ALL defined themselves as radicals....lol and all they asked was they be able to vote

in real life we have to use a little of both....

Answer 9

If you look up "g*y" in the dictionary, you will note that it is also listed as a slang term for a homosexual. I use patriarchy as it's defined in the dictionary, when I use it at all. If "feminism" becomes a slang term for "misandry as characterized by overweight, hirsute lesbians" (as certain people tend to define it now), we can use it as such; until then, the current definition stands.

Answer 10

A good dictionary should list every meaning of a word, including slang terms, obsolete terms, etc. My own rule is to use a word in the sense that the speaker probably understands it.  If I'm talking to an anthropologist about ancient Mespotamia (hey, I might someday) I'd use "patriarchy" in a different sense than if I'm talking to a specialist in feminist theory (hey, I might do that someday too).

"g*y" has come to be almost exclusively used to mean "homosexual" so I wouldn't use it in any other sense. It does seem to shifting its meaning again in some circles to mean something like "unfashionable".

Answer 11

For the most part we operate on common usage. Indeed, word meanings change over time and scholars have a hard time keeping up apparently. Culture is fluid, always moving, always changing.

Mazzleflappin!!!

I want that word in the dictionary.

Answer 12

No, of course connotation of a word and modern usage matter.

Try using the word "rape," which after all originally meant "to seize and carry off" in its archaic dictionary sense and you'll get more than a few looks.

Answer 13

I ain't really got to answer this one.

I will say feminists aren't for equality, beacuse no person I have ever met in my entire life is for equality.  This is evident by the quick decision to smash a fly who lands near one's food, but the extreme devotion to the preservation of life in humans.

Answer 14

I go by its most common usage in society.

Feminists usually go by which ever definition aids their agenda best.

Answer 15

I'll tell you that Amanda is wrong with her logic - it's a bit ridiculous to simultaneously claim that feminists can define their own terms for themselves and others but others are not allowed to do the same.

I will tell you that your argument is also wrong in part.  We target our words for our audience.  People who run around town ranting about Feminists or Patriarchy or Anti-Feminists are seen as crazy.  But when they are talking about it with people who share their views, the terms are known.  So Patriarchy and Feminism actually share both definitions - depending upon which group you are speaking to.  We go by the definitions used in the group we are communicating with.

Answer 16

Definitions, like those in the Oxford for instance, used to be more respected than they are nowadays.

Most language is in a state of flux, probably because 'political correctness'-speak and American gang-speak has undermined the real meanings of words.

Answer 17

no I don't have the answer to this question.

Answer 18

Probably by common usage. It can get tricky though because everyone has their own take on the word.  We should all go back to dictionary use, then we could recognize an insult when we hear it!  LOL

F*ck for example.  A process of planting seeds.  Imagine       " Where's Joe?"   "Joe you say? He's out f*cking in the field."