Do you need a telescope to see M1, M4, M14, or M24?

Question

It seems like you can buy them from any licensed retailer.

Answer 1

In the A&S section, you need dark skies, but going to a local astronomy club open house is enough.  Much cheaper than any licensed retailer.

Answer 2

Messier and Mechain catalogued the "M" objects with much more limited optics than what we have today.  Of course, the details of these objects were not prevalent...  they mostly looked like smudges, that could be confused for "new" comets in those days.  This is part of the reason why Messier began this catalogue.  He was extremely interested in discovering comets, but kept finding these "comet-like" smudges that clearly didn't behave like comets.

I would highly sugest avoiding the "target" and "wal-mart" type telescopes for a genuine stargazer.  They vary in "user friendliness" generally have poor optics, limited options, and are mass produced in cheap carbon copy factories...  well, I suppose all scopes are mass poduced these days, but if you want a little more bang for you buck, and a much more enjoyable toy to look through, to get a "real" telescope.  There are numerous manufacturer's that put quality scope on the market, but don't rush put and buy one right away.  Do a little research to find out what scope best fits your budget and the objects you wish most to look at.  A good planet viewing scope might not be the same as a good DSO one.

Reflectors are good to save a few dollars, but a reflector will not be quite as powerful as it's equal sized refractor.  

Depending on how comfortable you are with the sky, and wheteher you know if this is a hobby/career you wish to pursue, I would recommend using binoculars first.  They are more affordable, produce good results, most people have a friend who will lend you one if you ask, are easy to transport, no assembly required, and can easily be used for other functions (sporting events, hunting, nature walks).

If you are set on buying a scope, check out the source I have listed.

Answer 3

The objects M1-M4 and M14 are deep-sky objects which would need some form of optical aid to resolve these from a grey smudge into an object to behold.  These DSOs are not easy to find from a back yard in suburbia, let alone view and enjoy even with a small telescope of 80mm or less. M24 is part of the Saggitarius star field and a pair of binoculars would be better than a telescope for that wide field view of 1deg by 2deg (M24 sits in the middle of that field).

Just to give you an idea of brightness the average human eye is able to see stars up to magnitude 6 under perfect conditions from a dark-sky site. The objects you listed are;

M1-Crab Nebula magnitude 8.4

M4-Globular Cluster mag 5.4

m14-Globular Cluster mag 7.6

M24-Starfield mag 4.6

so as you can see only M4 and M24 are within the eyes' range, and M4 is so close to Antares that it is almost overpowered by that star's halo. M24 itself (excluding the starfield) is a verysmall oblect of only 7 arcminuites dia, and from northern skies is low in the south so expect some skyglow which reduces the brightness considerably.

DSO's like the Messier objects have a much larger suface area (a star is a point source) and so the magnitude is for the entire object which gives it a much lower surface brightness.

Anyway as someone above has said, the most important factor is that you view these objects from a dark sky site well away from the nearest population centre, otherwise you will be very disappointed.

Second thing to take on board is the abysmal quality of any scope you buy  "from any licensed retailer" as you put it, as they are pure junk fit only for the trash can. Do not buy a telescope from a department store. There are some really good small scopes which can be had for less than a few hundred dollars, but you need to know a bit about telescopes (good ones, bad ones and the technical issues involved) before you buy.

Check out www.skyandtelescope.com who can give you some really good advice on what type of telescope to buy (and not to buy), and what size aperture, eyepieces and focal lengths would be best for you e.g whether a refractor, reflector, Mak or Dobsonian would give you the best value for money.

I doubt if a "licensed retailer" even knows what where or who M1 is, let alone which end of the telescope you look through to view it.

If you are going to buy a telescope go to a reputable dealer or manufacturer and take someone who knows a thing or three about scopes.

Good luck.

Answer 4

No, you could detect them with binoculars from a dark sky site.  A telescope certainly helps.