Do you really think that buying a new Prius is good for the environment?

Question

Building a Toyota Prius makes a carbon footprint of 113 million Btus. A gallon of gas contains 113,000 Btus. So that's 1,000 gallons spent before it even leaves the factory.

It will advertise that you're an environmentalist, but you're better off buying a used Honda if you want to do good for the environment.

The Prius has a large environmental cost due to the 30 pounds of nickel in its battery.

Buy a used car that goes 35 MPG and the prius will take 100,000 miles to catch up.

Answer 1

You keep worrying about your carbon footprint. I will keep my 1 ton diesel, keep my thermostat cranked to 75 in the winter and 65 in the summer.

You know what is really fun? When it's 100 plus outside crank the thermostat down to about 50 and have a fire in the fire place.

I'll bet I am a happier person than you.

Answer 2

Well, when you compare it to buying a used car, obviously it's not going to stack up. And I think this is an important point to be made in all areas of consumption. People want to buy the newest eco merchandise, but buying used is almost always more sustainable, and more affordable.

However, some people are still going to buy a brand new vehicle regardless. Better that they should start buying more efficient vehicles and start the shift towards a whole system of better cars (those brand new priuses are going to be used priuses in a few years, and then used car buyers will have the option of getting a used one).

The other point is, of course, that the greenest car is the one you don't drive. But that's also not an option for alot of people sadly.

I guess, if you've got a car, keep it properly maintained. If you're looking at getting a car, get a used car with good mileage, and if you must buy a brand new car, at least get a car with amazing mileage that is either hybrid or just really efficient.

Answer 3

Just think of the "carbon footprint" you make by charging the car every night.  The power company still burns coal or gas to produce the electricity.  Then what happens to the battery?

Answer 4

Where are your sources for this information?

The fact is that buying a Prius is good for the environment.  Only 5-10% of a car's lifetime energy use comes during the construction phase, vs. 80-90% during the operational phase.  Thus the more fuel efficient a car is, the more efficient it is over its entire life cycle.

Additionally, it takes little if any extra energy to gbuild a Prius as opposed to any other car.  In fact, I would wager that it requires more energy to build an SUV than a Prius.

Also, nickel is a benign metal.  You carry nickels around in your pocket all the time.  It's not an environmentally damaging metal.

Don't believe everything you hear.  Check your facts.  Mine are available on pages 4-5 of the document within the link below.

Answer 5

There are other hybrids out there you don't just have to buy a prius. But if you were going to buy an SUV or a truck you should definitely buy a prius. I think its great that people are buying more fuel efficient cars.

Answer 6

well, you say it takes 113 million btu's to make a prius. is that any more than it would take to make any other car that gets 1/5th the gas milage? Why does that all of a sudden make it a terrible detriment to the environment? hummers probably require more, AND they get 1/10th the gas efficiency, yet no one complains about those

also the battery, yeah i'm sure it takes so much energy and pollution to make those things, but they last 10 years or more before they have to be replaced. and they allow the car to run 100% clean during idles and slow drives

older cars are generally much worse on the environment than most people think. sure they get 30+ mpg but the engines are so worn out by then and they had much lower emission standards to follow

Answer 7

unless you get down and try and smell your exhaust or what-ever, I dont see any problem, because all non-solids decipate in the fridgid thinned air above your head outside.==facts.

Answer 8

You forgot to say how much gas you can buy for 40 or 50 Thousand dollars.

Answer 9

The Prius will pass up that used car to 300,000 miles without a problem.  the used car has already had many many parts and engines and batteries replaced to go the same distance.  How many Btus have been used now???

Also, the Prius has been around 6yrs+ already.  There are used available, you just can't find them because that horse is still running!

Answer 10

It appears that you are quoting a "carbon footprint" from a known highly-flawed "report."

There's a lot of myth, urban legend, and misinformation out there on hybrid vehicle batteries and vehicle production, thanks to a flawed marketing paper by CNW and a poorly researched student newspaper article that keep getting quoted...

Anyhow, I suggest reading:

Prius Versus Hummer: A Nickel for Your Thoughts:  http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200711/...

"I read an article stating the Prius has a worse impact on the environment than a Hummer because of the enormous pollution created in making the car’s batteries. True?" : http://www.straightdope.com/columns/0804...

Hummer versus Prius: "Dust to Dust" Report Misleads the Media and Public with Bad Science: http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_...

Prius Versus HUMMER: Exploding the Myth:  http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_New...

Giving Directions: No, the Hummer Actually Isn't More Energy Efficient Than A Prius, Let's Put This "Debate" To Rest: http://www.betterworldclub.com/articles/...

Dust in the Wind: Hybrids' Total Energy Cost:  http://www.hybridcars.com/environment-st...

Hybrid Battery Toxicity: http://www.hybridcars.com/battery-toxici...

Heard the One About the Hummer?: http://www.toyota.com/html/dyncon/2007/s...

Usually the mythic "article" from The Mail on the nickel in the hybrid cars' NiMH batteries is quoted from a now retracted article. The retraction that clears up this bit of misinformation is at: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live...

(They were using data from the early 1970's about the INCO-Sudbury nickel mine, which was more than 20 years before the first hybrids needed NiMH batteries, and the plant has greatly cleaned themselves up and reforested the area since then. If you were to add up the amount of nickel in the million+ hybrids sold since 1997, the total is less than 1% of the world's annual nickel production (far more nickel is used for stainless steel, for example).)

Here's the 2004 Toyota Prius Green Report (life cycle assessment):

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji...

(you'll need to download the Japanese fonts for your PDF reader in order to read it, but the entire document is written in English.)

Over the lifespan of the Prius, when compared to a comparable mid-

sized gasoline vehicle, the Prius comes out ahead in the life cycle assessment (LCA) for airborne emissions for CO2, NOx, SOx, HC, but actually does worse for PM (thanks to the material and vehicle production stages). Measured lifespan is given as 10 years use/100,000km. The CO2 break-even point for the 2004 Prius compared to this unnamed gasoline vehicle is given at 20,000km. (more CO2 is emitted during Prius production, but the Prius makes up for it over it's driven lifetime.)

Another neat thing is that the Prius is one of the first uses of Toyota's Eco-Plastic (plastic made from plants, as opposed to petroleum products). The battery is recycleable (NiMH), as is much of the car (steel and aluminum body, for example).

As for the batteries themselves:

The lead-acid (Pb-A) 12v accessory batteries in hybrids tend to be smaller than those found in every traditional gasoline vehicle. Recycling programs are in place for traditional lead-acid batteries.

All the hybrids on the market use NiMH (Nickel-Metal Hydride) batteries, which contain no heavy metals (so they're not hazardous waste, like the Pb-A batteries), and are easily recycled.

The hybrid battery packs in the Prius have labels on them for whom to contact to recycle them. See the HV Battery Pack Recycling section in the Prius Emergency Response Guides.

page 11 (of the printed version): http://techinfo.toyota.com/public/main/1...

page 19 (of the printed version): http://techinfo.toyota.com/public/main/2...

To quote Toyota's press release:

http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_librar...

<quote>

How long does the Prius battery last and what is the replacement cost?

The Prius battery (and the battery-power management system) has been designed to maximize battery life. In part this is done by keeping the battery at an optimum charge level - never fully draining it and never fully recharging it. As a result, the Prius battery leads a pretty easy life. We have lab data showing the equivalent of 180,000 miles with no deterioration and expect it to last the life of the vehicle. We also expect battery technology to continue to improve: the second-generation model battery is 15% smaller, 25% lighter, and has 35% more specific power than the first. This is true of price as well. Between the 2003 and 2004 models, service battery costs came down 36% and we expect them to continue to drop so that by the time replacements may be needed it won't be a much of an issue. Since the car went on sale in 2000, Toyota has not replaced a single battery for wear and tear.

Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries?

Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.

</quote>

There are no commercially-available plug-in hybrids on the market so far. (So you cannot plug them in, other than the same gas station pump that most other regular cars use.) The hybrid battery is recharged either through regenerative braking (kinetic energy from coasting/slowing down spins a generator to make potential energy in the battery) or by taking excess power from the gasoline engine (use the gasoline engine as a generator) to recharge the hybrid battery. There is no plug. No charging off the mains/local electric supply.

Meanwhile, there is this Swiss study that found the Toyota Prius to be the world's greenest car:

http://www.reuters.com/article/environme...

Whereas the ACEEE finds the Toyota Prius to be the 2nd "Greenest Vehicle" of 2008 for the US:  http://www.greenercars.org/highlights_gr...

While I will agree that no car is good for the environment thanks to production costs and maintenance/fuel use, if you are going to get a car you might as well get the greenest one out there - and a Prius is in most top 5 lists of greenest vehicles.